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Post by Jo Jenkins on Jun 21, 2007 11:01:03 GMT
Robert Oliver is at it again!! Last time he had to good Heavyweights Hobo and Kings Warrior he put the younger one, Kings Warrior into the Middles. We all know what happened next. He was so big that it dragged the height of the Lights up and made the Heavies even taller!! We have just about got back to the 'proper' heights and in comes Masterful.
In Roberts OWN BOOK and in the booklet sent out by Sports Horse Breeding GB for which R Oliver supplied all the pics he states.... 'ideal pattern of M'w is 16.3 to 17.00 with 9 inches of bone' he also states..'The true H'w need not be more than 17.00 but should have 9 to 10 inches of bone'
Masterful is way over 17.00 and has at least 10 inches of bone. Just because a professional rider already has a H'w he cannot make us all believe that this other horse is a M'w. I know Mr Wakley is also a Glos. man but he needs to 'smell the roses' just him saying it is a tru M'w does not make it true. It it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... it's a duck!!
No matter how many judges he tells black is white. Masterful is a Heavyweight and a fab one at that. Let Mrs Oliver keep the ride and have two proper Heavies giving K Jerram and J Webber a run for their money!!
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Post by PtBT on Jun 21, 2007 14:02:04 GMT
I know where you are coming from with this. I have a 17.3hh ISH who has 9 good inches of bone and is capable of carrying an adult male for a full day out hunting. Stood next to friends' dressage horses and eventers he looks humungous. So why am I so frequently asked if I show him as a lightweight? We are often one of the lightest and smallest horses in the class, and it is always the professionals who are riding the more substantial MWs. Funnily enough, they usually have another HW to show too.
I lifted this quote from a showing website;
My thought is if it is 17hh and has 10" of bone and yet can't carry a 12st 7lb - 14st rider out hunting, then it shouldn't be being shown as a hunter to start with.
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shsg
Newbie
Posts: 26
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Post by shsg on Jun 21, 2007 19:54:57 GMT
what makes a weight hunter fit into its class isn't just bone and hight it more to do with overall build. look at k jerram's hw nobal clower its a midget in hight compaird to most hw's but it still won at hoys and if the pros are asking if its a lightweight then it prob is they do no what there talking about that's what made them pros.
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Post by Hmm on Jun 21, 2007 20:09:16 GMT
IMO Noble Clover only won at HOYS because it gave the judge a good ride, unlike a lot of the class with the 'interesting' judging. I don't think it's typey enough for a HW at ALL!
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Post by proudwilliam on Jun 22, 2007 16:04:10 GMT
So what do folk consider to be an ideal heavyweight then.
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Post by Jo Jenkins on Jun 22, 2007 16:40:06 GMT
This weeks H&H page 74 top right! Good width to the chest, deep girth, approx 17.00 to 17-2, 9" to 10" bone below the knee, with a powerful 'manly' look. The true M'w Show Hunter would be far more quality in his look, he would ideally be a 'chaser type' TB or more likely 3/4 TB not a half bred. No more than 17.00 hh with 8 3/4" to 9" bone. I can recommend the SHB(GB) booklet as it goes into great detail with pics for anyone unsure. Robert Oliver had one of the best M'w ever in his own and many other experts opinion in Dual Gold. Masterful would absolutely swamp him.
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Post by PtBT on Jun 22, 2007 17:47:18 GMT
Sorry, I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. I didn't say it was pros that were asking, in fact those of my friends who are pros are quite clear he is a MW. What I was trying to say is that the ludicrous size of horses in classes these days means that the weight divisions are moving ever upwards. Horses too big for their divisions are being shown in them nontheless because everyone wants to be the biggest horse in their class, and if you are a pro with 3 really huge horses you stick the biggest in the HW and work your way down from there. There are horses being shown in LW and MW classes at the moment that have no right to be there, but judges seem to be loath to tell someone, particularly if that someone is a pro, that they really ought to be in the next class up.
Ask yourself - if a horse a shade under 18hh and weighing in at just short of 800kg, giving a man's ride, with the depth of body of a MW - if that sort of horse ends up being shown as a lightweight, then what size are our HWs supposed to be? At the East of England show there were no HWs forward - I wonder why?
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Post by proudwilliam on Jun 22, 2007 18:52:28 GMT
I considered Red Hand to be a true heavyweight with great movement and presence. I was often told that my show horse moved too well for a heavyweight!!! Kings Warrior caused a stir when it was discovered that he was part warm blood, but this did not distract that he was a lovely moving animal.I have a friend who's worker won HOYS but was never placed highly again when its pedigree was known to be German/Thoroughbred.
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