|
Post by deflated on Jul 16, 2007 15:02:44 GMT
I do not want to start yet another debate about 14-2 show ponies being eligable for the small show riding type classes, however does anyone know how many true small show riding types have qualified for Hoys this year can we have a list as i only know of 2 ie Wilderness Carmen and Stanley grange Puppeter there has been 12 qualifiers to date this week both North Of England and Stithians were won by 14-2s in fact at North of England im sure the first 4 were 14-2s and it was a massive class with lots of quality animals forward.
|
|
|
Post by Kirstie on Jul 16, 2007 15:05:24 GMT
Hi, i qualified mine which is not a 14.2 - pendley executive. i know that the courtland pony that qualified at the winter champs is not a 14.2 so that makes 4. just trying to think who the others are now
|
|
|
Post by Kirstie on Jul 16, 2007 15:12:26 GMT
i also think that leamington moondance has qualified and i dont think that is a 14.2 - correct me if i am wrong though
|
|
|
Post by clobo121082 on Jul 16, 2007 15:24:11 GMT
I think it is relatively equal at mo but cld be wrong! Think the int are fighting back ;-) snip, carmen, george (courtland be fair), Pendley Executive, lemmington moondance
ok 14.2's freedom, all talk, thomases, stanly grange galaxy (although think he is an int really doesnt really do 14.2s), Harlaw Simply the best, Whalton High Jinks (although again doesnt do 14.2s i believe)
my guess is that half of the class at hoys will be 14.2's. Be interesting to see how many 14.2's do the RIHS as the class goes in after the 14.2's so some people may choose not to do 2 classes straight after each other. Also think the sp championship usually goes on the same time as the intermediates so the top 2 shouldnt be in it from the 14.2's. Same for some classes at BSPS be interesting to see how many 14.2's do the blue riband int then straight into the 14,2's spose it gives them a nice warm up before their class!
|
|
|
Post by Stithians on Jul 16, 2007 18:32:16 GMT
What got the ticket at Stithians?
|
|
|
Post by queenabsx on Jul 16, 2007 18:46:31 GMT
I think Stanley Grange Galaxy got the small ticket as it came second to freedom. x
|
|
|
Post by guest123 on Jul 17, 2007 9:33:07 GMT
I do not want to start yet another debate about 14-2 show ponies being eligable for the small show riding type classes, however does anyone know how many true small show riding types have qualified for Hoys this year can we have a list as i only know of 2 ie Wilderness Carmen and Stanley grange Puppeter there has been 12 qualifiers to date this week both North Of England and Stithians were won by 14-2s in fact at North of England im sure the first 4 were 14-2s and it was a massive class with lots of quality animals forward. i would like to say that mine courtland befair which was the 1 st to quailify he is a full up int and is definatley not a 14.2!!!!!!!!! the smalls would still have a strong enough class without all the 14.2 s and agree they should be split...
|
|
|
Post by Srt on Jul 17, 2007 10:22:36 GMT
I agree that the 14.2's and the actually full up small srt's should be split. My srt was placed at hoys last year and were not having much sucess at all this season due to all the 14.2s being at the top. At the moment to me it looks like there is going to be 2 classes at hoys this year for 14.2's.
|
|
|
Post by srt fan on Jul 17, 2007 13:24:14 GMT
Lemington Moondance and Whalton High Jinx were 14.2 show ponies and very successful. Just because the rider is out of that class doesn't automatically turn that pony into an intermediate. There really does need to be a rule on this matter but the BSPS just keeps dismissing it as they make more money this way. In my opinion the way forward would be to let the 14.2 sp do the int class at the smaller bsps shows where at the moment entries are quite low for none qualifying classes but should not be allowed to do both classes at RIHS or HOYS. Its very sad for the people who are out of the pony classes and want to progress into horses being beaten week in week out by ponies. This is making the true Intermediates look odd in their own class. Lets hope at the RIHS this year we see some proper little horses win these classes. Good luck to you
|
|
|
Post by gg guest on Jul 17, 2007 13:47:58 GMT
Give us a break there is quite a few of us that only do intermediates as we are to old for 14.2 s and are just doing the class before we go onto further education and not competing in 14.2s aswell
|
|
clobo121082notloggedin
Guest
|
Post by clobo121082notloggedin on Jul 17, 2007 14:45:49 GMT
yeah i have to say maybe 14.2's should be allowed to compete in one but not the other class either 14.2's or intermediates but not both, however there should be a much more distinct recognition of the int type as a little horse and not a pretty show pony. 14.2's are the only section where they do really get 2 classes and I just don't see how this is fair. I can understand intially why they were allowed before the classes got so popular but now they are not needed to support the classes and lets be honest most people are so busy chasing qualifiers they do not do local shows that don't have bigger qualifiers. What do people think about having a lower age restriction? Personally i just don't see how allowing 14.2's in intermediate classes is fair or neccessairy, 13.2's dont enter 14.2 classes and this is pretty much the equivalent of what is happening in the intermediates. Having said all this a hundred times i don't think the rules will be changed and it is up to judges to identify a 'true type' and also request a 'true int' show. I have done 4 qualifiers this year and at soe/eoe and the royal we were requested to do a simple show pony show! On another point as well 15whp can't do int qualifiers on the same day as it is unfair having already jumped the course, well in theory this is true for the int and show ponies. Why at HOYS and RIHS are the 14.2's allowed to do both as they surely have an unfair advantage over the true int as they have already ridden the ring? I think maybe we should ask the BSPS to put this issue to a members vote? Or could we do a petition?It's to late for riders like me who are in their last year facing the onslaught of 14.2s in their class but hopefully we can help to change it for others. However i don't want to seem like i am moaning at 14.2 riders as i do see why people with 14.2's do the classes and i don't blame them for doing it and qualifying. If there are no rules to stop them i guess why can't they have 2 rides at hoys, i know i would want to ride my pony as many times as i could at hoys x
|
|
|
Post by Srt on Jul 17, 2007 15:07:40 GMT
I couldnt agree with you more. I have done 6 or 7 hoys classes now this season and i can honestly say that only 1 i feel was judges fairly and this was at Winter champs were i was 2nd to courtland be fair who is a proper int and not a 14.2 sp. We are starting to not enjoy going to the hoys qualifiers now due to expecting and anticipating what is going to win and get there tickets and we have been right each time. At the moment i have my pony at home and like anyone else who is home produced, its hard enough as it is to try and qualify without the pressure of half or more than half of the class actually not being true to type. I also have a number of friends who feel the same way and i feel its very sad that people who are in there last year of riding ints are being beaten by younger children on there 14.2sp's. Its just like clobo said... we carnt do any other class and either can 13.2 sp's so why should they be allowed to enter both, ok at smaller shows but what really bugs us the most is when a 14.2 sp qualifies HOYS or RIHS on the same day as qualifying small srt... du think thats fair??
|
|
|
Post by real srt on Jul 17, 2007 15:33:09 GMT
i completley agree, i and i know many people feel it is so demoralising at the moment that true int are not getting placed in these classes. i mean you cant reali blame the judges as these prettty 14.2's are very flicky and eye catching, but you cant compair a small horse to a pony, the pony will win every time for these reasons. Next to the 14.2's reali INT look plainer and are therefore pushed down the line. i think the class is big enough as it is with reali INT in it. the truth is a 14.2 and a INT are completly different so how can they be placed in both classes? they should b marked down on TYPE!! at the moment i am not enjoying the class at all and i think if the rules dont change soon then many ppl will move on to a different class where the class will actually b judged fairly. Which is very sad as i have a true INT so it couldnt do any other class. i think BSPS should alter the height to; exceeding 148cm and not exceeding 153cm. this will then eliminate the problem of having all the pretty 14.2's in the class and actually give the true INT a chance for once!! i think it is rediculous that onli 4 true INT have qualifyed for HOYS, as someone sed b4 hand HOYS 07 will be the 148cm SRT. With the exception of the 4 REAL INT. i hope something is done about this!! Asap!! and the TRUE INT do exceptionally well at RIHS and HOYS!!! x
|
|
|
Post by True Int on Jul 17, 2007 15:50:29 GMT
Just out of interest, which proper ints havent qualified yet, but have been to the majority of the qualifiers?? xx
|
|
|
Post by real int on Jul 17, 2007 15:57:01 GMT
rite wot ponies have actually qualifyed for HOYS 07?
i have got the list of Top Show POnies but i dont think that is all the ponies that have qualifyed. PLease could you let me know?!?
up to now i know that the following ponies have qualifyed:
Courtland Be Fair (Team Harvey) BSPS Winter Harlaw Simply The Best (Royce )East of England Lemington Moondance - Northern Mountcaulfield Freedom (Roberts) Royal Pendley Executive (Jerram) SOE Summer Radway All Talk (Gilbert-Scott) Bath and West Whalton High Jinks (Ahern) Midlands Wilderness Carmen (Team Quiney) Cheshire
what are the rest???
thanks xx
|
|
|
Post by Srt on Jul 17, 2007 16:02:11 GMT
Stanley Grange Puppetter qualified at area 16 Stanley Grange Galaxy qualified at Stithians. 14.2 of thomases qualified at North Of England - Crafton pony. Think thats it at the moment! Really hope us with the proper ints get our tickets too:( xx
|
|
|
Post by clobo121082 on Jul 17, 2007 16:09:27 GMT
List is at top i think stanley grange puppeteer (area 16) Thomases crafton 14.2 qualified at NOE Stanley Grange Galaxy (sithians)
To be fair this isnt a new thing with 14.2's in int classes think people have just got fed up now just seems last few season and especially this one 14.2's have dominated the top placings. I can think of few top int that haven't qualified yet (pretty sure they havent) although not saying they have been out a lot but to name a few Crafton King of Swing, small land rialto, Whalton High Flyer and Foxholm Moondance
|
|
|
Post by Kirstie on Jul 17, 2007 21:42:29 GMT
well, i have to agree with what is being said here and i think that srt, clobo, srt fan and real srt have said. at the end of the day, the intermediates don't go into the 14.2 classes and take the tickets because intermediates are show ponies are completely different types. it would be like putting a new forest in a connemara class and it winning - some would argue they are similar yet they are still eligible for their own class and have their own class to compete in under that society. if the intermediate and the show ponies were governed by 2 different societies then perhaps things would be different - like intermediates doing hack classes. another thing to do would be to do what the BSHA do and you have to declare which class you are going to be competing in for that season so you are either a sp for the year or an int. this would enable the people who are going onto further education or whatever to be able to keep the same horse without either having to sell completely or sell and buy a new one for a short space of time. it needs to be thought about by everyone as at the end of the day you are never going to be able to please everyone but by taking all ideas and view points into consideration then it might be the best way to deal with it. in my opinion the srt's and the 14.2's have completely different types and the srt's are a very strong class now so do not need the numbers to be made up by 14.2's if that makes sense? by all means if you want the 14.2 to be an int's for the season then go for it but don't do both. this is not the 14.2 riders fault as like clobo said - ifyouhave a chance to ride in 2 classes at rihs/hoys then Why on earth shouldn't you go for it if there are no rules stopping you!? this needs to be taken into account by the bsps as otherwise we face 2 14.2 classes just called different names and the 'true' intermediates will just die out which is a shame as they are such an important class when people are progressing from ponies to horses. also, like srt fan said - the small intermediates are looking odd in their own class when they are stood up against 14.2 sp's - surely this is not correct. it is all very well and good having a versatile pony which is able to do more than one class but there should be rules and the ponies are more one type than the other. having been 6th at hoys in the small intermediates last year and now watching this intermediate struggle (and still trying) to qualify this year is quite heartbreaking and like clobo said - there are an awful lot of 'true' intermediates out there this year which have not qualified yet but a lot of 14.2's which have managed to qualify in the intermediate classes. surely this is neither fair nor right? in my opinion you are one or the other. fair enough if a pony grows/matures/measures out then by all means do the intermediates - I'm sure a lot of the top ones started out as 14.2's but then matured into intermediates. they are not doing both classes though. really have gone on enough now and would just like to agree with what has been said and congratulate all the intermediates who have qualified this year
|
|
|
Post by Grrr on Jul 17, 2007 21:44:19 GMT
I can really understand how your all feeling, i think its so unfair that the only class an Intermediate has, it is being taken over.
I was thinking of the idea of at the start of the season the pony should be entered into one category, like with the Hack and Cob. However i think that it wont really change the point as when 148 jockeys are out of showponies they will do Intermediates with there 148 and it wont change the point as the showponies will still compete.
As i have a large it doesnt really effect me, however i just think its so unfair. I really do think this needs to be brought up on a meeting about exceeding the height from 148, however im not sure whether it will make a difference, i think the decision will be made to not compete in the two classes at one show, like the whp. I think that the main shows will keep the ability to compete in the two classes as it will then become an arguement with the whp.
I hope that the classes do get sorted out soon for all the top PROPER intermediates that have not got to Rihs or Hoys this year. I think someone needs to bring it up in a meeting to try and put it across.
May i just say, everyone try and enjoy Rihs n Hoys n may the lineup be on TRUE intermediates as the 148 have their class.
Ps.. what are the judges like?... what do they like. ie proper int or 148?. xx
|
|
|
Post by mee on Jul 18, 2007 9:23:35 GMT
Having spoken to a council BSPS member, I have been told that they can't do anything about this little problem as it's HOYS that wont budge because they get more money from the entrie Levy's.The only way it might be changed is by the sponsor basically offering more money.
|
|
|
Post by true sisrt on Jul 18, 2007 18:56:32 GMT
I have been told that if the BSPS get enough letters supporting this issue then it will be looked at and considered further. I have written a letter to the BSPS today, put down my £25 so as to ensure I get a response, maybe some of you could do the same. GIf you have been told its HOYS who will not allow the BSPS rules to be changed then why don't we also involve them in this matter for their response and consideration. There is Channel Four coverage now too perhaps we should involve them, its crazy where does one stop. We pay our membership to BSPS and they should sort this out and liaise and advise HOYS of the best way forward. One could involve the Int Sponsor - who might that be - does anybody know, I will write to them to. The thing is everybody feels they are unable to speak to council or BSPS bodies about this in the correct manner in fear of it affecting their childs future results, I must admit I have had this view. But to be honest now it really is getting ridiculous, too many good Smalls are at the bottom of the line and not getting a look in. It would appear then to be pure greed, I thought this was supposed to be enjoyable, its very expensive to show animals as all of us know. I am sure if it is the choice of HOYS, they have enough profit from the show and its levy at the qualifiers, I cannot see how they will lose out as people will go out and buy true to type animals to compete, so they can't lose as far as I am concerned. A suggestion could be they put on some extra classes at HOYS to compensate, maybe Part Bred Class like at RIHS, only a suggestion we don't do that class, but I am sure it would get great attendance if a HOYS qualifier to.
|
|
|
Post by deflated on Jul 18, 2007 19:07:17 GMT
Perhaps sending a print out of this thread along with the letters i am constantly campaining for the height to be raised to exeeding 148 and as it is our last year also every one should support the new classes at BSPS summer show as the height has been raised in that class as they are trying out an open age for the older riders if enough people enter they will make changes they are scared of losing money.
|
|
|
Post by fcukbunny99 on Jul 18, 2007 19:32:28 GMT
lemington moodance is infact a 14.2 but now only does ints. i for one am not against the 14.2s tht dont do sp classes going in the ints.but what i am annoyed about is the fact tht a 14.2 gt chamo at hoys, the top 4 at nofe wer 14.2s and its just takin the mick.this class was invented for a horses tht is inbetween a pony and a horse, a stepping stone if you like from child to adult.ones opinion in this matter is clear!!!!leave the class for the adults and true ints.yes.... if you do have the chance of qualify for another class i would jump at the chance. but if youre qualifing a 14.2 say for int and then qualify a int for its own class and your the only jockey. one ticket will be wasted and a true intermediate could have taken it. please people help here. this is terribly frustrating when these ppl who want to persue there hobbies cannot forfil ther dream becoz some child on a 14.2 is paying god knows how much on a producers yard and qualify ther sp for a class tht is not thers. hope everyone who has or hasnt qualified and is going to the int has a fab time and gets terribly wasted l8er yall mwah xxx
|
|
|
Post by clobo121082 on Jul 19, 2007 9:17:51 GMT
I have written before and spoken at our area meeting about this a few years ago but I will write again to add my support. I am not in the class next year so the changes won't affect me but i feel that strongly about it that i will still hope to get it changed. And i have to agree with the above points, why qualify your 14.2 sp and one you do intermediates on knowing full well you won't take them to hoys/rihs!! I don't think there is a case now that if 14.2's arent allowed there won't be enough in the class, i haven't been in a qualifier class with less than 16 odd in it (usually into there 30's!!) and also if 14.2's aren't allowed in the class people will actually go out and buy a proper int instead of doing the 2. These classes are suppose to bridge the gap between ponies and horses however how is this possible when they are been dominated by show ponies and riders who probably aren't old enough to do hacks!! Are well the battle goes on!!.....
|
|
|
Post by chazzysmum on Jul 19, 2007 15:43:33 GMT
Does this theory then apply to the 153 SHPs who also do the Int SH classes? Although I dont think that there are as many entering and qualifying for both of these classes as the 14.2s and Int Smalls. We have a 153 SHP and once and only once entered a BSPS Int SH class, and we looked far too small and not at all up to the weight or depth of the Ints. Have never entered him in one again!
Also re the winner of HOYS last year, his new jockey will be out of the 14.2 class after this year, so I imagine they will just concentrate on Int classes next year
|
|
|
Post by Part breds at hoys on Jul 19, 2007 16:03:25 GMT
With reference to the above comment i had heard that there might be part bred arab classes at Hoys in the near future. Has anyone else heard this or know if it is true?
|
|
|
Post by Small Int help on Jul 19, 2007 16:32:02 GMT
They need to raise the height for the intermediates as follows: Smalls Exceeding 148 CMS but not exceeding 153cms I think the wording for the larges is okay but if not it should also be Large Exceeding 153 cms but not exceeding 158 cms My pony was placed at HOYS last year - he is in my and lots of other peoples view a True Intermediate - he is in no way at all pony like - he is a fantastic mover very elegant but also there is a lot of him and he is horsey like. I agree not every judge will like him but next to a 14.2 he actually looks out of place and too heavy for his own class !!! bizarre !!! He was the only true intermediate in the top four at hoys last year. It is really disheartening when you go well and are beaten by a 14.2. We do not put him in the hacks because our jockey isn't ready for that class and he basically doesn't at the moment go like a hack although he would make a fantastic hack but I think our jockey will be out of her depth, perhaps I should do what the others do and get a hack rider to compete on him - but he was bought for my daughter to ride. So he only gets one class to compete in. Regarding 15hh in Int SHT - I don't think there are any that do this as they are far too small, which is really what should be happening with the 14.2's in our class - but the judges seem to prefer them - giving them really high conformation marks !!! as well !!! I think a copy of this three should be copied to BSPS and sent in rather quickly - I also think an aticle in Horse and Hound wouldn't go a miss !! What do you think ?
|
|
|
Post by Concerned on Jul 19, 2007 18:05:58 GMT
Have read all this with interest and guess it is the money that talks! However, deflated what class are you talking about - I guess I missed the small print and may not have entered?
|
|
|
Post by int person on Jul 19, 2007 19:22:44 GMT
What does everyone think to the height actually being raised to match Hack heights (154CM)?So we get some hacks in to knock the 14.2's out of it.
|
|
|
Post by clobo121082 on Jul 20, 2007 10:17:31 GMT
I will try with H&H but not sure will have to much luck or how about seeing if the hollings will cover this point in one of their articles in there?
|
|