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Post by Zara on Jul 20, 2007 10:22:42 GMT
chloe i think that is a really good idea, ask them and see what they suggest.
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Post by srt on Jul 20, 2007 17:31:41 GMT
There isnt enough nice isrt to split the class . Your being unreasonable because the nicer animals that may do 14.2's aswell are beating you.
When i used to ride there wasnt even a isrt class so think yourselevs lucky. You should really be in the hacks !
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Post by just a question on Jul 20, 2007 17:54:55 GMT
Does it not bother anyone though if hacks double up as large intermediates? surely this is no different to 14.2 doubling up as smalls??
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Post by GG VISITOR on Jul 20, 2007 18:20:08 GMT
WILDERNESS CARMEN DOES HACKS AND SMALL INTERMEDIATES - SURELY IT IS UP TO THE JUDGES TO DECIDE IF THEY ARE 14.2S INTERMEDIATES OR HACKS
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Post by mmmmm on Jul 20, 2007 18:22:39 GMT
I disagree with you totally. There is loads of beautiful small srt's out there. The class is more than doubled by having the 14.2's in which is unfair for the proper intermediates. I suggest you think about what you just said and think about all the PROPER intermediates that havent qualified for there own class for HOYS but were all placed last year at HOYS. Dont you think that tells you something??? Also it wouldnt bother everyone so much if yeah- the odd nice 14.2 was being placed but the fact that there coming into the class and making the proper srt's look out of place is wrong! we might as well all buy 14.2sp and get jockeys for the srt class. !
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Post by Small SRT on Jul 20, 2007 19:50:01 GMT
Rubbish srt - there are loads of absolutely gorgeous true int srt to warrant not allowing in the 14.2's - and the 14.2's aren't nicer than the int so get your facts right who ever you are. Or maybe you don't realise they are two different types of animal or they should be. We need to involve Hollins and Horse and Hound I think as this is getting ridiculous - has anybody actually been in touch with BSPS this week ?? Its no good blasting on here we need to something positive before its too late for another season !!!!!!!!
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Post by Hack fan on Jul 21, 2007 14:21:22 GMT
Whilst I agree with gg that Carmen does do hacks and ints. there are very few small int srt's that do stand up in hack classes. Carmen and Courtland Be Fair are probably the only 2 although I do know Stanleygrange Pupetteer has also qualified for HOYS before in hacks and always qualifies for RIHS. But in my opinion he is an out and out 'true intermediate'. However, there is and should be a difference between a hack and a small int. srt. Just ask any of the hack people, Vicky Keen for one has strong views on ints. doing the hack classes!!! Hacks do have a different way of going particularly when ridden by the judge. This can also be seen when several top class hacks do not do so well in the int. class as they do not 'go on'. There is nothing wrong in people entering what classes they want however 'good' judges should distinguish between a 14.2 show pony, a small int.srt and a small hack.
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Post by Kirstie on Jul 21, 2007 16:11:08 GMT
I do agree that some people find it difficult doing both the small hacks and small intermediates. My small - pendley executive has qualified for hoys as a small intermediate, however, he is more of a small hack - he is still a novice and was 2nd in the novice hacks at windsor this year and also won the novice hacks at the BSA spring show. I believe that qualifed as an intermediate this year because he is very mannerly and that helped him to gain his ticket. I too agree that the hack type and intermediate type are very different however, they are both 'horses' and in some classes a judge has to look at more than just type - manners still need to count . saying this i still believe that the height limit should be raised to exceeding 148cm. i think that we should put our heads together and try and get as much support with this as possible
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Post by Small SRT on Jul 21, 2007 18:17:32 GMT
Hi Kirstie I agree with your comment last. There are lots of int that could do hacks but Hack Fan is quite right they go entirely differently. My daughters pony is Whalton High Flyer he would do really well as a hack as his natural pace is slow and very hack like but he is not at all schooled at the moment to do hacks as my daughter is very young and inexperienced, and I believe the Hack class is for adults, they would be slightly different than int, and I love the Keens Hacks they are soooo mannerly, the black one I am sorry I don't know its name is so elegant. We would have to completely change chiefs way of going now and slim off his neck to look like a true hack.
But he is looking out of place in his own class with the 14.2 in it, I agree we need to get together and put a plan in place as to how to deal with BSPS, HOYS, Sponsors etc etc over this one, as we want this changed for 2008 season as promised it would be looked at but I have heard nothing regarding competitors views at all, perhaps we could get a petition going and send it in, I can get loads of willing people to sign itas they are pi..ed off with the class at the moment. My worry is that if they don't change it now, we all sell our good int, then they go and change it !!
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Post by Chloes mum on Jul 22, 2007 9:35:28 GMT
I don't usually get involved in this but perhaps as a long standing BSPS area committee member should! As Chloe's mum I am the proud owner of Stanleygrange Puppeteer and obvioiusly biased as I think he is great whatever class he is in! However taking off the rose coloured specs would agree with the comments above that hacks should be different to small ints. As small srt guest said just look at the Keens horses to see what a 'true hack' should look like. We have done both classes and qualified for HOYS and the RIHS in hacks, but although he goes well there is a different way of going, especially for the judge and often Chloe and I think he looks too strong for the judge, (although he isn't) it is just that ride judges don't take up any contact. We once qualified under Jackie Beatham (whose knowledge I value) and she said to Chloe that he is just what an intermediate should be but is not a 'true hack' and I would agree. The intermediate class was introduced to 'bridge the gap' for riders who were too old for ponies to go into horses - and I guess also now give some of the taller jockeys a class when they are too big for 14.2's. I feel this aim has lost it's way - perhaps we should urge all BSPS members to attend their AGMs this year and put forward their views so that Area Chairmans can take this to the main BSPS councel. I would not want to stop anyone from competing after all it is supposed to be 'fun' and for us this will be too late as it is Chloe's last year but if it helps others then great. Even if they don't ban 148cm's - definition on 'type' and way of going for judges would be useful. I personally like the idea of deciding which class your horse fits into - which you have to do for Hacks -you cannot do Hacks and Riding Horse classes. As already said some 148cms are better int. types than show ponies so to raise the height limit might be unfair. It should be about type and as hack fan say's a 'good' judge should be able to distinguish this. Good luck to you all with this debate!
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Post by interested on Jul 22, 2007 10:25:04 GMT
i am not an owner or rider of an isrt or hack. But surely the whole point of the ISRT class is a stepping stone for riders leaving show ponies and going on to horses so in theory an isrt should not be a 14.2 sp or a hack but something in between??
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Post by SRT on Jul 22, 2007 18:35:37 GMT
Yes you are correct at the description of a True SRT.
Hi Chloes mum I agree with your comments, perhaps you could let us know when the next meeting will be cos I intent to go.
My daughter Amy missed out on 14.2's because of her size we went from 14 SHP and 14 SP to 15h SRT, obviously everybody is biased about their own animal, you have a lovely SRT in Snip and I think ours is gorgeous to Whalton High Flyer.
We need all the help we can get to try to accommodate everybody, even the judges should be like you say judges to type, so a little help from everybody may be a start to resolving the issues we all have with the class.
I to don't normally get involved but Amy is feeling so demoralised and finding it difficult to understand. I would be please to speak with you if you want my number let me know.
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