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Post by fed up on Jul 31, 2014 16:37:50 GMT
We went nearly 400 miles around trip to participate in an a mature route to try and qualify for hoys, which we were delighted to do first attempt, but that same week we received a letter through stating we had been disqualified as we were producers, someone had sent a picture to the organisers of us riding a friends horse and said it was for financial gain hence them disqualifying us, and despite us appealing to them providing documents to show we are in full time non equine occupations and references from farriers and other proffesional people, they have finally replied and basically said they can disqualify anyone they see fit without explanation. So very annoyed hurt and out of pocket by a lot of money in diesel and entry's. I certainly would not entertain that organisation ever again with our money.
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Post by Philippa on Jul 31, 2014 17:00:50 GMT
That is truly sad and I feel for you. I cannot believe what the world is coming to. I'm afraid the daftest thing any of the societies did was introduce home produced classes. The tactics of the people who have complained are below the belt. I hope they can sleep at night. Disgusting.
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Post by maxandpaddy on Jul 31, 2014 17:04:34 GMT
Hmmmmm the showing world isnt very nice is it
So sorry x
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Post by 19simeon56 on Aug 1, 2014 22:18:15 GMT
Unfortunately the showing world seems to be attracting the 'wrong' sort of people.I used to enjoy showing but the breed shows especially, have,for me,lost their charm.The politics that go on behind the scenes leaves a lot to be desired,as you have unfortunately found out.As for the spiteful moron who took delight in reporting you,as Phillipa says 'I hope they can sleep at night'.
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Post by flo1 on Aug 3, 2014 16:14:25 GMT
So this means that we are not allowed to ride anyones horses but our own? How ridiculous! Somebody obviously saw you as a threat.
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Post by oh on Aug 3, 2014 20:16:27 GMT
That is very disappointing, but unfortunately there seem to be many so called amateurs making a living from horses that it then tars others with the same brush!!! Surely the society concerned would have done there homework and not just disqualify because? Which society? Can you appeal?
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Post by Springtime on Aug 3, 2014 20:27:44 GMT
ridculous! it's amazing anybody still bothers trying to qualify the way things are going.
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Post by honeypot on Aug 3, 2014 22:28:13 GMT
First of all well done to you, to qualify at your first attempt is fantastic. It does seem to mean that anyone can accuse anybody of being a producer with no evidence which is ridiculous. I would take them to the small claims court for the expense of your entry fee and fuel and let them explain themselves to a judge then at least you would know what their standard of evidence was.
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Post by Sfas on Aug 4, 2014 7:00:52 GMT
Sfas is a joke. Do you really want to qualify, pay the same money as the other competitors for a once trot round the ring once canter and then do your conformation with the saddle on? Talk about treated like second class citizens. It's pants and has been for years. If you have a pony good enough go out there and try the normal qualifiers. Have never understood rules for sfas, you cannot even live in the same house as someone who has qualified for hoys before? ?
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Post by bigmama on Aug 4, 2014 9:22:43 GMT
Why would anyone want to compete under a society who "can disqualify anyone they see fit without explanation" ... this is crazy
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Post by Welshcob92 on Aug 4, 2014 10:26:26 GMT
I think this may be the TSR master class HOYS one not the SFAS?? There was a post in lounge and snug area a couple of days ago..
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Post by Sfas joke on Aug 4, 2014 11:48:02 GMT
Sfas is crazy. One qualified is owned by livery yard and rider works there. Pathetic. Glad we qualified open!
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Aug 4, 2014 13:25:46 GMT
Im not sure why your quite so bitter about s4as being a joke would seem last years cobs winner is doing pretty well this year, and hwy you should really care if you've qualified as open, Open classes are really fair classes when faces get paid to ride a horse at one show to get its ticket and thats it! S4AS is a joke in one respect as it has all these rules but takes it on face value that people are being honest as I know that one horse that has qualified S4AS is kept on a producers yard
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Post by the showing register on Aug 4, 2014 18:19:34 GMT
Good evening
This is not the TSR MasterClass. We had a query about the status of one of the riders last week but this has now been resolved. Amateur wording is a nightmare and it seems that you just have to keep adding new bits to it every year.
TSR
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zara
Junior Member
Posts: 185
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Post by zara on Aug 5, 2014 7:26:43 GMT
A few years ago a lovely family i know qualified their horses for sfas the horses belonged to the children's grandfather the mother did not work with horses but was on the Connie panel the children had never been to hoys or rihs the week before hoys their sfas tickets taken away because their mum was on a panel funny thing no mm class for sfas whole family was devestated and out of pocket ironic thing was the organiser of sfas knew the family as the mum used to keep her horse on a livery yard that the organiser of sfas worked on many years ago. But the grandfather had the sense to know the horses were good enough as the following year they qualified for RIHS and Hoys on their own merit The horses that got handed down the tickets one had been in a producers yard and picked up the day before sfas and the other was owned and ridden by a lady that owned a livery yard.
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Post by fed up on Aug 5, 2014 14:19:37 GMT
thanks for all you replies! yes I am talking about SFAS. we drove all the way to the other side of the country as we didn't have the paperwork/passport back in time for the one near to us the weekend before. we bought the horse late march beg of April, its only 6 and had been out to grass for the full year before hand. never done any high level shows and only placed lower end of the ridden classes at local. we took her on as our main small hunter is looking like being retired as has done a tendon in her hind leg. the pony was showing a good amount of potential so we thought why not take her and see what they judges feedback was, she was pulled 3rd initially behind two very very nice horses and after the ride judge had ridden her (first ever ride judge) they pulled her up to second and qualified her. then the next week after we had been announced on their webpage and social media etc. as qualified we received a letter stating we had been disqualified. we telephoned and the person who runs it was very very rude to us, so we put it in writing and asked for a copy of the appeals procedure and sent copies of full time job paperwork that's not even in the equine profession. after several phone calls and advice from bhs etc we received a solicitors letter stating that their decision was final with that rule about being able to disqualify whom they see fit at their discretion in it, and that no more correspondence would be adhered to! very upsetting, would rather have not qualified than do so and have it taken away from us. we are going to try the normal route next year where funding allows but this isn't always plain sailing.
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Post by honeypot on Aug 5, 2014 14:46:33 GMT
'their decision was final with that rule about being able to disqualify whom they see fit at their discretion in it, and that no more correspondence would be adhered to!' Well that makes a mockery of it. I would still try the small claims just to see if someone turns up and look them in the eye.
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Post by Guestless on Aug 5, 2014 15:02:32 GMT
It must be infuriating to think you have qualified and then have it taken away with no proper justification. I can understand that mistakes happen and people sometimes enter qualifiers they are not eligible to do, but when you have misproven any accusation made, surely it decreases a society's credibility if they cannot offer a reasonable explanation. A discretionary rule is a cop out IMO.......imagine it, your pony has been disqualified cos it has a star and we only want ponies with blazes at the final! I would be making as much noise as possible if I was in the position described in the previous posts.
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Post by Confusing on Aug 5, 2014 17:53:28 GMT
Totally agree with TSR the Amateur/Home Produded/Pretty polly rules are so confusing and continually changing - they are also the biggest cause of dispute and arguments, just look at the Guest page this week alone! Personally I find it a minefield so can truly understand how competitors and show organisers can get confused, I also think Home Produced is not always a fair rule as many HP people employ help. Would like to see one set of Amatuer rules or perhaps even just more Restricted classes.
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Post by bigmama on Aug 5, 2014 18:48:18 GMT
Totally agree with TSR the Amateur/Home Produded/Pretty polly rules are so confusing and continually changing - they are also the biggest cause of dispute and arguments, just look at the Guest page this week alone! Personally I find it a minefield so can truly understand how competitors and show organisers can get confused, I also think Home Produced is not always a fair rule as many HP people employ help. Would like to see one set of Amatuer rules or perhaps even just more Restricted classes. As I have always said, Home-Produced should mean excactly that, pony kept at home and produced from home by close family ... we have not competed home-produced for a while now as cannot be doing with all the argy-bargy and those who blatantly cheat their way into home-produced classes ... also same judge year after year
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Post by swifty8312 on Aug 7, 2014 21:20:44 GMT
thanks for all you replies! yes I am talking about SFAS. we drove all the way to the other side of the country as we didn't have the paperwork/passport back in time for the one near to us the weekend before. we bought the horse late march beg of April, its only 6 and had been out to grass for the full year before hand. never done any high level shows and only placed lower end of the ridden classes at local. we took her on as our main small hunter is looking like being retired as has done a tendon in her hind leg. the pony was showing a good amount of potential so we thought why not take her and see what they judges feedback was, she was pulled 3rd initially behind two very very nice horses and after the ride judge had ridden her (first ever ride judge) they pulled her up to second and qualified her. then the next week after we had been announced on their webpage and social media etc. as qualified we received a letter stating we had been disqualified. we telephoned and the person who runs it was very very rude to us, so we put it in writing and asked for a copy of the appeals procedure and sent copies of full time job paperwork that's not even in the equine profession. after several phone calls and advice from bhs etc we received a solicitors letter stating that their decision was final with that rule about being able to disqualify whom they see fit at their discretion in it, and that no more correspondence would be adhered to! very upsetting, would rather have not qualified than do so and have it taken away from us. we are going to try the normal route next year where funding allows but this isn't always plain sailing. Oh no!! ? So sorry to hear this. What a waste of your time and money. Which class was it that you did if you don't mind me asking?
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Post by sjw87 on Aug 7, 2014 21:50:45 GMT
That sounds awful :-(
I've not competed in the s4as series but I think it's bad that the judges are the same at each qualifier as no matter how good a horse is, if one of the judges doesn't agree, you have no chance elsewhere.
I've just had a look at the news section on their website and they have said that they would welcome haries in the riding club show horse which sounds good in principle. When you then see that the class has a minimum height of 148cm, it rules out rather a lot of haries!
Sent from my GT-I9195 using proboards
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Post by LLB on Aug 10, 2014 9:47:28 GMT
Go to a solicitor with all of the facts, the HOYS rules and a schedule and let them put together letter to forward to HOYS. Sometimesthe people in show offices get it wrong. For the cost of a letter and your happiness this is well worth doing. You can then decide whether you have a case and if you wish to proceed. The choice is yours. These shows do make mistakes.
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Post by forester on Aug 11, 2014 12:57:47 GMT
I c many competitors in HP classes when they get other to ride them in the ring also. This is not HP. And it really bugs me.
Sorry that someone felt the need to get u disqualified the showing world is getting worse as the years go on. Judges judging friends do them favours etc I no know (a few) who judge the handler/rider over the pony and won't waste my money
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Post by flo1 on Aug 11, 2014 15:42:06 GMT
I no know (a few) who judge the handler/rider over the pony Judging 'faces' seems to be common practice unfortunately
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Post by CarolineNelson on Aug 11, 2014 16:10:34 GMT
I no know (a few) who judge the handler/rider over the pony Judging 'faces' seems to be common practice unfortunately But not all of the time, fortunately. Not ALL Judges deserve to be "tarred" with that brush.
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Post by flo1 on Aug 11, 2014 17:14:30 GMT
Judging 'faces' seems to be common practice unfortunately But not all of the time, fortunately. Not ALL Judges deserve to be "tarred" with that brush. No, of course not Caroline. The majority of judges are fair, but in certain circles the practice is obvious.
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Post by forester on Aug 11, 2014 20:37:14 GMT
But not all of the time, fortunately. Not ALL Judges deserve to be "tarred" with that brush. No, of course not Caroline. The majority of judges are fair, but in certain circles the practice is obvious. Definitely not tarring all judges but agree with flo1
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Post by swifty8312 on Aug 11, 2014 20:43:22 GMT
I do think that SFAS needs a bit of a refresh and get some new judges in (well, mainly one new judge) This particular judge is soooo rude and completely ruined the whole experience for us. We were on such a high after qualifying then got brought back down to earth with a bump
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Post by bin there on Aug 11, 2014 22:03:28 GMT
I do think that SFAS needs a bit of a refresh and get some new judges in (well, mainly one new judge) This particular judge is soooo rude and completely ruined the whole experience for us. We were on such a high after qualifying then got brought back down to earth with a bump If you think that judge is rude...just smile n be greatful you wont end up in the ring at HOYS havin your horse pulled to piecies for all the audience to hear !!!
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