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Post by the showing register on Mar 24, 2015 17:00:13 GMT
Our sentiment Conniegirl - keep the entries as low as possible in our case £25 for a HOYS Class for our members (£20 with £40 worth of benefits ) and £35 non members other classes £10. We have to hire a showground and all the associated costs but unless showing is inclusive to everyone it will surely die on its feet. There are shows that use the HOYS qualifiers as cash cows as they can be sure of big entries. We find with lower entry fees you have a better supported show across all the classes. So often now its only the qualifiers with any entries to speak of and this is not a good trend.
This is not a dig at any particular show just an observation.
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Post by comanchediva on Mar 24, 2015 20:37:22 GMT
NCPA Spring Spectacular last weekend is a great example of the above. £6 per class for pre entries for members is better value than our local riding club. OK so there is no prize money in most classes and no HOYS quals but I've rarely seen a fuller car park and excellent quality in all the classes that i saw. And i have no other interest in this show except its always our first big show of the season and I'm sure the low entry fees are part of its success. And of course they still have to hire South View and have all the associated costs. With regards to GYS, we will definitely take 2 ponies costing over £100 in entries but i have a little fund for this type of expense so i dont feel it as much when i enter. I love the fact we can compete at GYS so i grin and bear the entry fees
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Post by ShowSick on Mar 24, 2015 22:37:18 GMT
Shows need to start offering better value for money or they will start dieing off as people migrate to disciplines and shows where the entry fees, stabling, prize money etc are better. It's a good point. I'm switching to dressage because I can do at least two BD classes for the price of one HOYS qualifier, and I can qualify for major championships at my local BD centre just 20 miles away with qualifying rounds once a month, rather than travelling around the country at an average of £300 a pop for a HOYS class by the time you've paid diesel, entry fee, stabling and a groom if you're not lucky enough to have a friend or relative with you. True, there's no dressage qualifier quite like a grass ring at a county show on a sunny day, but equally if it pours down I'm glad to park on hard-standing and ride on a weather proof surface, and not be hanging around indefinitely for my class to start. If I want a county show 'fix' I enter a couple of my favourites or I go as a visitor. I realise that it's really expensive to put on the big shows, but that doesn't make it any easier to find the money to participate. It's simple economics; I get more satisfaction for less money by changing discipline.
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Post by janetbushell on Mar 25, 2015 6:20:44 GMT
Thank you comanchediva for your comments - it is always a financial worry to put any show on as if no one enters then the loss would be enormous, so it is always a "fingers crossed" moment when trying to plan the budget!
One small point - prize money is given in 40 out of 72 classes (BSPS qualifiers) but kept to the minimum (£5 first prize) although £3 & £1 if for 2nd & 3rd if more than 6 entered. Also for the previous 4 years the pre entries for members have been £5, but I really did have to make the increase this year as all our associated costs keep edging up & there are probably far more things that need to be paid out than most competitors realise.
Whilst we hope to make a small profit at the show (!), we also want to provide our members (customers) with a great show (product) so that they want to support us & the other NCPA events.
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Post by 44 on Mar 25, 2015 7:35:42 GMT
As well, the county shows need to realise that the horses section is part of their entertainment that is on offer for the public to come and watch ..... Empty rings are not worth looking at !!!
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Post by CarolineNelson on Mar 25, 2015 8:14:27 GMT
Conniegirl, apologies, "insane" it might seem. But as stated above, that is the cost of hiring them in. Many of the temp. stables at Arena UK are there 'permanently'. As you rightly state, you can stay at XYZ for a 'week'. Hiring temporary stabling for a number of days for a show which runs for a number of days spreads out the hire cost to the hiree. An alternative for a major one day show might be to a) have no on-site overnight stabling . . . or b) not to run a show for competitors to enjoy.. And that is not an option. The show you've highlighted at Arena UK is a 'Member's show. An end of season 'party' if you wish. And, to be honest, the other show you mentioned, the 'Festival of Hunting' is an amalgam of the sadly defunct East of England Agricultural Society Show and the Peterborough Hound Show. Why could the brilliant, historic East of England not continue in its known format? Costs. :'( Interesting that the Scottish horse show is at the Royal Highland Showground who themselves only (i say that in context with my reply here only) charge £68 per stable. Philippa - hi! I'm not getting into a deep discussion here, but, to respond to your comment, The Royal Highland Show is in June. Yes, it charges £68.00. per night. Cost spread over the five nights. Yes, they are the 'same' stables from the same company. But, they are dismantled, taken elsewhere for another event. Just like show horses, temporary stables are on the move all season. The SHS has to hire in again specifically for the SHS - which is the third week in July. There is little 'competition' between the unfortunately very few temporary hire companies which, if there was, they'd be fighting for trade which would help keep charges down. To be fair, they have vast overheads - labour, accommodation for said labour whilst erecting/ dismantling - huge transport costs, specialised machinery to load, unload, erect, dismantle. Constant repairs . . . . Leaving at least one man on-site with a caravan which they do for the 'week' long shows such as RHAS. . . .
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Post by mandmgirl0164 on Mar 25, 2015 16:15:36 GMT
As well, the county shows need to realise that the horses section is part of their entertainment that is on offer for the public to come and watch ..... Empty rings are not worth looking at !!! Not many empty rings at the Great Yorkshire - they must be doing something right as huge entries every year!!
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Post by catkin on Mar 25, 2015 16:36:50 GMT
I think there is a huge difference between the cost of stabling (which let's face it is optional) and the cost of entries for the classes. I quite understand that if the cost of hiring them in his high, this cost has to be passed on to entrants. I still cannot understand the every increasing entry fees, and the fact that some shows, with pretty much, one would imagine, the same overheads, can charge so very differently.
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Post by Philippa on Mar 25, 2015 16:44:23 GMT
As well, the county shows need to realise that the horses section is part of their entertainment that is on offer for the public to come and watch ..... Empty rings are not worth looking at !!! Not many empty rings at the Great Yorkshire - they must be doing something right as huge entries every year!! Because the in hands are cuddy qualifiers. A lot of riddens are HOYS qualifiers and for those that aren't it's just one of those prestigeous shows everyone wants to win. Hence I still pay the fees to go. I love the show.
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Post by comanchediva on Mar 25, 2015 20:06:21 GMT
As well, the county shows need to realise that the horses section is part of their entertainment that is on offer for the public to come and watch ..... Empty rings are not worth looking at !!! Not many empty rings at the Great Yorkshire - they must be doing something right as huge entries every year!! I completely agree BUT not many empty rings at Cheshire either and at £20 for an inhand class at Cheshire as opposed to £50 for the same class at GYS there's just no comparison especially as GYS is a permanent showground and pulls in revenue from other events. As I said before though, I love the fact we can compete there so I'll just grin and bear it
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Post by delbel on Mar 25, 2015 20:20:23 GMT
It's our local too, I always make members which means getting into the show around £14 per day instead of £23 for advanced tickets, we usually enter something and I don't think those class fees have gone up much M&M lead rein is £25 for members similar to last year, if we have spare exhibitor passes we can always sell them to people we know and get the entry fee back! We also use the badges for countryside live, in October, it's free, I personally think you can get a lot out of the membership for gys, if it's your local, and even though it's our local it wouldn't cost that much less to have to to take the pony home and come back again! So stabling isn't an issue to us, A number of shows big and small put the price up high for non members in order to encourage membership, as often by the time you have finished it's not much more to become a member, I did it with equifest last year, it cost me an extra £5 to become a member than not and correct me if I'm wrong but it seem to think most of the welsh shows do this too.
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Post by Expensive on Mar 25, 2015 22:13:37 GMT
Not quite to the original topic, but I honestly don't think people realise just how much it costs to "put on" a show. Some ball park figures for a two day show I was involved in running 4 years ago Venue hire - £2500 Pa hire / caravan hire- £700 Judges accommodation & expenses- £900 Pi event insurance - £500 Judges / Stewards food £300 Various association affiliation fees - £500 Rosettes, back numbers, prize money - £1300 Stationary/printing /advertising/ postage - £400 First Aid cover -£500 Jump hire - £300 Plus much more - and let's not forget show secretary and other volunteers who mostly have day jobs too.
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Post by Guest1234 on Mar 25, 2015 22:37:04 GMT
Slightly off topic but can someone explain why online entries are cheaper than postal entries?
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Post by Guestless on Mar 26, 2015 0:01:26 GMT
Slightly off topic but can someone explain why online entries are cheaper than postal entries? I imagine online entries go straight into the system so need less admin than postal entries which will require someone at the office to manually input the entry details.
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Post by GaynorStones on Mar 26, 2015 9:34:18 GMT
I think priced out is the right word! Just looked at our list of shows for 2 ponies doing a few RIs and HOYs as well as others until middle of June that need entering during the next month and entries will come to just over £600!! Think a rethink is in order
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Post by mcnaughty on Mar 26, 2015 11:48:08 GMT
Do you think there would be an uproar if the prize money was dropped in favour of a really nice challenge trophy and smaller keeper trophy/medal. I personally never think about the prize money I might get back - blimey, I'm just pleased if I get a rosette!
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Post by conniegirl on Mar 26, 2015 12:04:20 GMT
Mcnaughty, when entry fees are small like NCPA shows (who could probably ccharge double without people wingeing) then I dont expect prize money at all. When entry fees are £50+ I expect prize money, unfortunatly normaly even when you win the class you rarely get your entry fee back.
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Post by janetbushell on Mar 26, 2015 12:39:37 GMT
There are rules regarding prize money for several societies/classes
But trophies are a NIGHTMARE for shows - please don't suggest any more of those!!!!
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Post by CarolineNelson on Mar 26, 2015 18:46:43 GMT
I think priced out is the right word! Just looked at our list of shows for 2 ponies doing a few RIs and HOYs as well as others until middle of June that need entering during the next month and entries will come to just over £600!! Think a rethink is in order A "rethink" from whom? Those who put their heart, soul, time and personal finances into running shows for competitors to enjoy, or a "rethink" for those who wish to compete at said shows . . . . ? Competitors, I'm with you all the way. Make no mistake, this is one VERY expensive hobby for a non-professional person. And it is so, even if they are. And for those who provide the shows.
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Post by Toaster on Mar 26, 2015 20:34:33 GMT
I can see both sides having been involved in the organising of the chicken version of HOYS (7000 chickens, hall cost over £10K and not a penny prize money) I think there is a great deal of merit in the previously mentioned logic of trying to attract more entries from a single exhibitor, the overhead costs of dealing with that person is covered at a certain point and any entry fees beyond that point are financially worth having
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Post by comanchediva on Mar 26, 2015 21:15:01 GMT
I think priced out is the right word! Just looked at our list of shows for 2 ponies doing a few RIs and HOYs as well as others until middle of June that need entering during the next month and entries will come to just over £600!! Think a rethink is in order A "rethink" from whom? Those who put their heart, soul, time and personal finances into running shows for competitors to enjoy, or a "rethink" for those who wish to compete at said shows . . . . ? Competitors, I'm with you all the way. Make no mistake, this is one VERY expensive hobby for a non-professional person. And it is so, even if they are. And for those who provide the shows. A rethink from Gaynor I would think (Gaynor I hope you don't mind me saying that). We're all very aware of how expensive our hobby is but that's a lot of money in anyone's world. We don't do qualifiers although we may do some next year when the ponies are a bit older so not encountering this expense atm. We try to mix in NCPA, NPS and now we've started two on their ridden careers, BSPS shows, with local agricultural shows. They usually have low entry fees, a bit of prize money to cover the diesel and sometimes a trophy which my sister will tell you I love lol.
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Post by Philippa on Mar 26, 2015 21:22:00 GMT
I've started to enter as early as possible for the shows I definately want to attend and paid my memberships through Jan & Feb purely to lighten the load and spread the cost.
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Post by GaynorStones on Mar 26, 2015 21:24:10 GMT
Yes a rethink from me definitely! I thought I had answered this and then went to edit it but it appears to have disappeared. I know how expensive it is to put a show on and I admire the organisers who put a lot of hard work into the shows but my point was I can't justify spending so much on entry fees in one month so I will have to rethink what shows I will do.
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Post by RubyD on Mar 27, 2015 15:35:26 GMT
NPS Area 4 hold there Summer Show at the Great Yorkshire Showground, a wonderful venue but to hire it for a day cost just under £8000. In addition there are costs for judges, rosettes, prize money , WH jumps, course builder so the list goes on. It is not cheap to put on a show with classes to cater for all and they endevour to get sponsors to enable them to hold the show at this wonderful venue.
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Post by Philippa on Mar 27, 2015 19:13:16 GMT
NPS Area 4 hold there Summer Show at the Great Yorkshire Showground, a wonderful venue but to hire it for a day cost just under £8000. In addition there are costs for judges, rosettes, prize money , WH jumps, course builder so the list goes on. It is not cheap to put on a show with classes to cater for all and they endevour to get sponsors to enable them to hold the show at this wonderful venue. I've no problem with this and will support area 4!when possible but they don't charge £50 a class or £60 a stable and they have to find £8k before they even start to break even/make a profit.
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Post by catkin on Mar 27, 2015 19:40:46 GMT
I think we have to be careful what we wish for here with a 'rethink'. One of the reasons, I believe, shows are becoming more expensive is because they hire purpose built facilities. I know for a fact that for some, this is because it makes life so much easier, you turn up and run the show, rather than having to build the rings etc. I am absolutely not saying running a show is easy, quite the opposite. Some modern factors that may impact on this are a. more people who work and therefore cannot find the time to turn a field into a show site, b. our modern requirements on surfaces/going and c. health and safety regulations that dictate, to a degree, what you have to offer at a show. So, the last thing we should be doing is calling into question the numerous unpaid volunteers that help to provide our sport. That said, I stand by previous comments I have made regarding county shows. Why can some charge up to £20 more per class on an owned show ground,than others? Why not consider breaking with tradition and running more over weekends - when you would attract more entrants and visitors and thereby more income? Also, do not forget that with qualifiers, a huge part of the expense is the levy and shows have no control over that. I do think a rethink is required, but probably from us competitors. Perhaps returning to the days of entering more local shows, or not chasing qualifiers, or whatever. I know I am as guilty as anyone on all counts, but this is a complex issue and there are no easy answers.
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