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Post by justasking on Feb 6, 2016 12:39:24 GMT
We want to take our pony out in first ridden classes this year, she is an m+m and looking at the rules it says any suitable bridle. I appreciate that everyone including myself likes to see a first ridden in a snaffle but My little girl is only just turned 7. She did a few first ridden classes last year successfully in a snaffle at local level but we would like to try a couple of bigger shows this year which means bigger rings. I was thinking about putting her in a little Pelham or globe Pelham simply to give her a little more control. Our pony is very good and does not pull and this is probably more for my piece of mind than anything else as I would rather her be safe and happy. Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this and will she be put down the bottom of the line because of this.
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Post by catkin on Feb 6, 2016 14:16:19 GMT
This is a very thorny subject. Ideally the pony would go in a simple snaffle. However, my absolute priority is safety and even the best FR can bowl on a bit sometimes and with a tiny tot, in my opinion, far better to have a bit that is slightly stronger and requires no lugging. I also think this is kinder to the pony. However, there are some judges who will put you down for anything other than a snaffle. You may find that trying different snaffles is therefore the answer, they do vary greatly from the simple eggbut or my favoured french-link. We once went to a teach-in with Davina Whiteman who suggested we put our section A (who was extremely genuine) but was green had a tiny jockey onboard, in a straight bar mouthed snaffle - and it worked a treat. The pony sat up a bit, had immediate brakes and it was a snaffle. She was a prolific winner for us as a LR, FR and eventually WHP. We never looked back and she was always happy. Good luck.
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Post by ilovenatives on Feb 6, 2016 19:22:37 GMT
Our Shetland used to have a nice small ringed hanging cheek with a port for first ridden . She had a port because she has a big tongue . My daughter had more brakes and she also went much nicer in it . You will find lots will be in Wilkies at bigger shows but I'm not a fan of them for little tots as a tiny jockey doesn't normally have still enough hands and ponies often snatch the reins or won't go forward . A globe Pelham and a small jockey may have the same result as well . Perhaps try some slightly busier shows and see how the pony is before deciding to change to something harsher . In my experience most judges do mark down for a Pelham . Good luck first ridden classes are scarier for us mum's than for the jockey
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Post by the showing register on Feb 6, 2016 20:30:38 GMT
At our debate on the 21st Feb there is a question about FR MM and bits
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Post by m1hht on Feb 9, 2016 9:54:11 GMT
If your planning on doing BSPS classes then you must have a snaffle, but you can use a wilkie for that little extra help. Good luck
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Feb 9, 2016 10:07:02 GMT
That does seem mad to me as a wilkie does not have a snaffle action!
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 12, 2016 13:54:35 GMT
It is ridiculous isn't it. The rules state 'any suitable bridle' but people seem to believe judges prefer a snaffle. However, there was a little palomino pony (believe it was called Tomas ...) in the showing world mag (I think) that won a FR class and the photo clearly shows it wearing some kind of a bit with a double rein so obviously some judges do not mind. It would seem a very stupid situation if judges were going to penalise for following the schedule to the letter!
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Post by janetbushell on Feb 12, 2016 14:53:26 GMT
If your planning on doing BSPS classes then you must have a snaffle, but you can use a wilkie for that little extra help. Good luck The OP states that the FR pony in question is an M&M - therefore the pony does not have to be ridden in a snaffle, but in any suitable bridle.
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Post by m1hht on Feb 12, 2016 15:57:37 GMT
If your planning on doing BSPS classes then you must have a snaffle, but you can use a wilkie for that little extra help. Good luck The OP states that the FR pony in question is an M&M - therefore the pony does not have to be ridden in a snaffle, but in any suitable bridle. To me it reads fr m&m and she's looking to do bigger shows
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Post by janetbushell on Feb 12, 2016 16:38:19 GMT
The OP states that the FR pony in question is an M&M - therefore the pony does not have to be ridden in a snaffle, but in any suitable bridle. To me it reads fr m&m and she's looking to do bigger shows Exactly & rules for FR M&M are any suitable bridle so the pony does NOT have to be ridden in a snaffle under BSPS rules (or NPS or PUK or HOYS)
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Post by bigmama on Feb 12, 2016 17:26:20 GMT
To me it reads fr m&m and she's looking to do bigger shows Exactly & rules for FR M&M are any suitable bridle so the pony does NOT have to be ridden in a snaffle under BSPS rules (or NPS or PUK or HOYS) Totally agree, Janet but in practice, judges are frequently known to penalise those first riddens not being shown in a snaffle and some distinctly dislike Wilkies so I guess it's matter of finding out which those judges are and, if you choose to show under them, make sure your FR is wearing a snaffle
Otherwise, I can recommend a neat little Neue Schule Butterfly Pelham with split rein or a Globe Pelham with single rein for M&M FR
Good luck to all first riddens, hope you have an enjoyable and educational 2016 xx
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Post by janetbushell on Feb 12, 2016 17:41:36 GMT
I kept clear of judges' preference bigmama (!) - merely corrected the incorrect post.
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Post by ffionbelle on Feb 13, 2016 18:58:45 GMT
My daughter was pulled top in a recent f/r bsps class. Wearing a magic and flash noseband. Dropped to last because judge said she shouldn't be wearing flash.... Any thoughts on that?
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Post by bigmama on Feb 14, 2016 14:37:50 GMT
My daughter was pulled top in a recent f/r bsps class. Wearing a magic and flash noseband. Dropped to last because judge said she shouldn't be wearing flash.... Any thoughts on that? I would suggest that the judge thought the whole bridle too severe for a first ridden pony and, by doing so, she is acting within BSPS rules, I quote:
"Judges will take into consideration the severity of the bit, their opinions on suitable bridles may vary and their decision is final"
Personally, I have never seen a flash noseband being used in any BSPS classes other than working hunter .. the flash noseband was originally developed for show jumping
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Post by ffionbelle on Feb 14, 2016 15:50:31 GMT
Seen plenty novice ridden ponies with a flash on.... This was a novice class with a tiny 6 year old, probably didn't need the flash, just an over cautious mother!!!!
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Post by dartie92 on Feb 16, 2016 11:54:48 GMT
i showed my dartmoor very successfully at county level in first ridden classes in a pelham
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The Clue is in the Title
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Post by The Clue is in the Title on Feb 22, 2016 23:19:30 GMT
First ridden ponies are as their name suggests the first ridden pony after coming off the lead rein. Therefore they should be suitable for small, inexperienced riders. Their manners should be exemplary and they should be safe. If an animal needs a strong bit (globe cheek pelhams are severe) then they are not true first ridden. Paces should be rhythmic and comfortable and certainly not fast. The first ridden should go very differently to open/junior ridden ponies. Little people are inexperienced and not strong and giving them strong ponies that require serious bitting is not going to make them sympathetic and caring riders! Real First Riddens are few and far between but they are out there and they should be rewarded for doing their job properly!
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Feb 23, 2016 5:52:35 GMT
And looking at it from the pony's point of view, children just off the LR may not be settled in their hands, so the pony's mouth must be thought of. I totally agree that for general riding, the child must be able to control the pony, but surely in a show class they should be looking for an ideal first pony, ie one that will go kindly in a snaffle, isn't that the point?
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Post by catkin on Feb 23, 2016 11:10:32 GMT
To the above posts, yes in an ideal world. However, there are ponies that can on occasion need a stronger bit. They may not have the best of mouths but be perfect in every other way. We had a section A years ago that had been extremely badly broken. He had a mouth of iron. However, he was the safest, sweetest pony and I hunted him on my own from 5 years in a Pelham. My mother's theory was that on balance, he was the best ride for me and that she didn't see the point (for me or him) in me lugging him around all day in a snaffle. Interestingly, through less lugging his mouth came good and eventually he was a snaffle ride. So, if we can find the perfect snaffle mouthed pony, or make one, that's brilliant. But, its not always as simple as that - sadly!!
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Feb 23, 2016 11:27:01 GMT
Totally see your point - or rather your mother's - but I was talking about a FR show class. And I'm sure not all riders just off LR would have the hands you did.
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 23, 2016 14:10:46 GMT
Totally agree with the fact that FR hands are probably not experienced enough for anything with a double rein and the perfect FR pony should be ridden in a snaffle and go well in it. However the fact remains that the rules state 'any suitable bridle' so why would the rules state this but the judging go against that rule?
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Post by janetbushell on Feb 23, 2016 15:56:36 GMT
Totally agree with the fact that FR hands are probably not experienced enough for anything with a double rein and the perfect FR pony should be ridden in a snaffle and go well in it. However the fact remains that the rules state 'any suitable bridle' so why would the rules state this but the judging go against that rule? Because the same rule also states: Judges will take into consideration the severity of the bit, their opinions on suitable bridles may vary and their decision is final. Putting my head above the parapet, when judging an M&M FR class, as long as the bit/bridle is legal for the class (ie not a bitless bridle or a running gag) I judge the pony, how it goes & its suitability as a FR, using its breed type, its conformation, its show, its manners etc as described extremely well earlier in the thread. I actually only really notice the bit if the pony is NOT going well, or appears unhappy in its mouth & this can also happen if the pony is in a snaffle (of which often the judge can only see the rings & not what is in the ponies mouth) If absolutely everything else in the pony is what I am looking for then the bit does not play a part. If however there were two ponies who fulfilled this epitome of perfection & one was in a snaffle & one wasn't, then & only then might I choose the snaffle bitted pony. I do think that sometimes competitors feel they have been penalised for a bit, when in fact they have been penalised for how the pony has gone in that bit. Sometimes ponies in stronger bits can look "shut down" by the bitting, or rather rigid & held in a fixed outline from the bit, rather than from the hindquarters engaging and so do not appear to be truly going as one would wish a FR to go. Equally so some ponies can appear to go in a rather unsuitable manner for a FR whatever bit they are ridden in. Above all I like to see a happy pony with a happy, confident child on board who is clearly enjoying riding the pony, & one that I would be happy to put my own children or grandchildren on - just because the pony fits the breed criteria & the height restriction, does not mean that it will be suitable as a FR.
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