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Post by Blatant on Aug 26, 2018 13:28:56 GMT
How can the overall NOVICE champion at BSPS be a pony that is 10 years old, has qualified for Royal International in the Intermediate class more than once (and placed this year)??
Its about time people (in particular certain producers) were picked up on this blatant rule breaking. As I wasn’t there, and have only just found out about this, it’s too late now the show is over, but it’s really not on.
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Post by Philippa on Aug 26, 2018 14:34:56 GMT
Depends. Any results prior to being 6yrs old are wiped clean after their 6th birthday and they have to win 3 open classes in order to de novice. I have a pony who is 14, qualified RI as a LR and been to HOyS as a FR but she's still a novice LR in the eyes of the BSPS.
If the horse was not eligible for the class at the champs the BSPS would have contacted the owners as soon as the entry was received.
Check your rules & results before you jump to conclusions.
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Post by jakes87 on Aug 26, 2018 14:44:22 GMT
as you say PLACED
Unless you know the horses full results you can't assume it's not eligible
We had shp that qualified hoys/rihs on 2nd so still eligible novice.
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Post by the showing register on Aug 27, 2018 8:35:35 GMT
I dont know anything about the circumstances but on a general level most societies have opened up the Novice classes to attract more entries and probably in doing so have downgraded the true novice pony. Its chicken and egg as lots of people wrongly in my opinion now put 4 year olds in HOYS classes diminshing further the idea of a novice.
At one of our regional debates it was suggested on welfare grounds 4 year olds should be excluded from major qualifying classes and if this was the case a proper Novice championship coud be run as it would attract 4 year olds looking for experience. As it is probably the good 4 year olds were in the HOYS and prestigous open classes and the older ponies who have not perhaps quite made the grade or who have switched classes are in the novice !
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Aug 27, 2018 9:21:09 GMT
I'd agree with that one, or even a higher lower age limit for major qualifiers. My own ponies weren't normally broken until 5yos anyway so would have been 6yo when they did a novice season, which they always did first, with the NPS Picton as goal, and only then went on to Opens. I do think that novices should be defined by winnings and not age - breeding stock in particular may have had a breeding career before being broken for example so would be novice in experience at a higher age than a rushed one. I do wonder how long the ponies that are doing open qualifiers as 4yos will last for the future?
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Post by cmnli on Aug 27, 2018 9:22:07 GMT
BSPS are very hot on checking eligibility so whether you agree or disagree with the rules I feel sure these won't have been broken. BSPS did change novice and restricted rules several years ago so ponies who have qualified for RIHS/HOYS can often still be eligible. Persobally I also find it odd that ponies who have been Olympia and HOYS qualified and placed in say open classes can then be novice lead rein or first ridden! Although our old pony could not do novice open ridden (even though he was only 5 years old) because he had won the Junior class! i think as tsr have said societies have perhaps opened up the rules to attract more entries, although given the lack of novice classes throughout the summer season many people are forced into competing in open classes as there is no option. That is where I think the NPS classes like the Picton and 4/5/6 year old classes are really useful and should be supported, but not sure if these are available for plaited ponies as well? Perhaps there is a need for a 4/5 year old class like they have with hunters.
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Post by catkin on Aug 28, 2018 13:20:55 GMT
I didn't go to the champs this year; but a few observations. There ARE 4/5/6/young pony classes as well as novice classes. There is a confusion when an animal swaps from one job to another e.g. 148SP and Intermediate which is actually a similar job and less of a confusion when you are say a novice worker but an open ridden. I have personally known very unflappable 4/5 year olds that coped with most things and very much more highly strung animals that took years longer to get to the stage where something like an evening performance wouldn't upset/ruin them. So, I do think like people, animals are individuals. Though of course, the physical strains for any young animal are something to really think about. I agree with TSR - consider not having 4 year olds at HOYS and RIHS (unless perhaps there is a novice championship there) and try to run more novice classes all season long. In fact, tin hat on, I would rather we had more novice classes than the various PP and amateur ones. This would align us more with the other disciplines.
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Post by forester on Sept 3, 2018 10:53:23 GMT
I spoke to Bsps about this rule a while back. And they understand that a pony that has been to hoys RI or Olympia really isn’t a novice regardless whether they are placed or not. The advise given by Karen was to email in and it will discussed at council. IMO if the pony has qualified for any of the big shows (hoys ri Olympia) they aren’t a novice.
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Novice??
Sept 3, 2018 13:31:52 GMT
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Post by Philippa on Sept 3, 2018 13:31:52 GMT
I spoke to Bsps about this rule a while back. And they understand that a pony that has been to hoys RI or Olympia really isn’t a novice regardless whether they are placed or not. The advise given by Karen was to email in and it will discussed at council. IMO if the pony has qualified for any of the big shows (hoys ri Olympia) they aren’t a novice. But then that makes a mockery of the reset the clock at 6 rule as there are plenty of ponies that have qualified as 4 & 5 yr olds.
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Novice??
Sept 10, 2018 10:30:30 GMT
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Post by forester on Sept 10, 2018 10:30:30 GMT
Then they need to make the rule regardless of age. Not everyone is hoys mad so it gives everyone a fair crack at the whip
Why should a genuine novice have to compete against a pony that has qualified with the big boys.
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Post by Philippa on Sept 10, 2018 12:52:14 GMT
Then they need to make the rule regardless of age. Not everyone is hoys mad so it gives everyone a fair crack at the whip Why should a genuine novice have to compete against a pony that has qualified with the big boys. I don’t disagree with you but I think making the age limit of the ponies that can qualify higher would be a good place to start.
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Post by volatis on Sept 10, 2018 13:50:54 GMT
NPS rules are much stricter on Novices and the Picton Novice Final is one of the most hotly contested and most prestigious.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Sept 10, 2018 14:43:10 GMT
Must admit I love the Picton, bred and owned the overall Ch twice and been placed with others, qualified and come nowhere in the Final with yet more. It's always the major target for mine for a novice ridden season.
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Novice??
Sept 27, 2018 7:31:42 GMT
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Post by forester on Sept 27, 2018 7:31:42 GMT
The picton final is not as strongly contested as it was years ago
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Sept 27, 2018 8:24:01 GMT
I'd guess that that's because so many are hell bent on taking their babies to HOYS! If they raised the age limit for competing there maybe more would be doing the Picton?
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Post by ponymum on Sept 27, 2018 8:32:50 GMT
I think the picton is still the class most people want their youngsters to qualify for.
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Novice??
Sept 27, 2018 14:17:15 GMT
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Post by forester on Sept 27, 2018 14:17:15 GMT
I'd guess that that's because so many are hell bent on taking their babies to HOYS! If they raised the age limit for competing there maybe more would be doing the Picton? I totally agree!
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Novice??
Sept 27, 2018 14:17:54 GMT
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Post by forester on Sept 27, 2018 14:17:54 GMT
I think the picton is still the class most people want their youngsters to qualify for. People want hoys now. Not many novices had a full novice season
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Sept 27, 2018 14:31:26 GMT
Maybe they should! Better for the pony in the long run to go at it a bit more slowly.
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Post by titch on Sept 27, 2018 21:12:47 GMT
My boy is 5 next year and will be doing dressage and a couple of unaffiliated shows. We will contest pictons in 2020. I’m not in any rush and want to have him for many more years to come. We will do our first open in 2021. He was backed last autumn when 3 1/2 and is still only hacked out and been in the arena 3 times and we’ve had a canter in a field once.
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Post by ponymum on Oct 1, 2018 8:30:29 GMT
I think people will always push youngsters if they appear to be very willing and easy to do . That said , for 2 reasons we dont, 1 - I cant afford to run more than 2 at a time and 2 , working full time with a lot of driving involved day to day means I simply do not have the enthusiam to drive all over campaigning the Hoys! So Our novice is off to Heritage this year at 8 yrs old, to contest the Nov and restricted classes!
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Post by forester on Oct 1, 2018 15:05:56 GMT
Maybe they should! Better for the pony in the long run to go at it a bit more slowly. I totally agree Sarah
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