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Post by geegee69 on Mar 29, 2007 21:34:32 GMT
After reading the pathetic comments on the Midland Show results thread I am sick to death of reading the nasty, detrimental comments by the members of this site. I have sat hear for over 6 weeks reading the comments and feel it is now time to comment to all these sad people that really do need to look at themselves before criticising others. When these riders have their ponies going foot perfect and win consistantly them perhaps their comments may be valid, otherwise please stick to mucking out and removing your sh**. As for the rider being too big for the section A perhaps a history lesson is in order. Welsh mountain ponies in the past were capable of taking a full grown man sheepherding on the hill for the day. So I hardly think that a teenager weighing in at 6 stone 2 is likely to cripple the pony. At the end of the day if it takes a bigger person to school and educate a pony in the show ring then who is to agrue, better that than the child being seriously injured by riding a pony that is not yet ready!!!
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Post by Guestless on Mar 29, 2007 21:55:10 GMT
I agree geegee69 - I think we would be hard put to put "too big" a rider on many of our native ponies.....or at least we should be if they are bred according to type.
At least in the case of the Welsh A, the (apparently) tall girl actually took the pony into the class - how many time do we see adults warming up (or should that be exhausting) ponies before their tiny little jockeys can get on board for the class!
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Post by welsh on Mar 29, 2007 22:49:05 GMT
here here why do people think its cruel if they see an adult showing a small native yet they arnt phased by an big adult riding a show pony around for hours before a class. natives are bred to do the job they are expected to do if they lived where they are from oringally. many carrying adults or large stags or pulling heavy carts. show ponies now are bred to be pretty and for children to ride, they dont have the bone to carry a full adult or weight like some of the natives.
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Post by viking on Mar 29, 2007 23:45:59 GMT
Can't imagine a hefty Welsh Farmer going to the hill on todays Section A's somehow, and I'm not sure I agree with the principle. It's often said, but no one knows how long these pony lasted, quite honestly I think if it happened, probably not long at all! In today's world it would be a matter for complaint. Over horsing or under horsing is not an attractive sight.
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Post by Welshy on Mar 30, 2007 6:50:23 GMT
Hear hear geegee69
Perhaps all the sad comments came from the very same people who are overhorsed themselves.............see that thread!
Why oh why cannot people accept that our true M&Ms are hardy spirited weight carriers?
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Post by carabonni on Mar 30, 2007 7:49:58 GMT
Hmmm.. but what about the bigger picture. Small pony, short back, big rider sat on the back of the saddle, making the pony sore and then the pony not moving correctly, ie legs trailing behing. Even worse if the saddle was not ever in balance to start off with.
Big riders on small saddles do not work! Seen very many sore ponies that are being schooled and rider by too big a jockey for success in all spheres.
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Post by princess on Mar 30, 2007 17:30:19 GMT
My 12 yr old competed on our full up to height sec A last year. My daughter is about 5ft 4 inch and our sec A had no problems carrying her at all. As a novice pony she needed to see the sights and sounds before my 6yr old took over on the LR. I was disapointed at some comments from judges regarding the picture saying that daughter was too big etc although pony always did a foot perfect show. Most of the time she did well and we had a very successful year but this year even though my daughter wants to ride her we feel she should just compete in LR classes with our youngest as I got so fed up with nasty comments. By the way she is a big girl with more than enough bone to carry a adult!
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Post by sallyw on Apr 1, 2007 16:41:47 GMT
well Caribonni it might interest you to know that the saddle on my pony was fitted to it by the former chairman of the Soceity of Master saddlers, with that rider on it. The usual rider, aged seven also had her saddle fitted at the same time. All my ponies have regualr chiropractic check ups (my daughter is a chiropractor) and this pony has never ever had anything wrong with her. Thanks so much for all your support those who agree with me that what we did was perfectly okay - however - despite qualifying for the National Show at that show last week, the teenage rider is not going to ride this pony again in public, becasue she was so upset by all the comments to say nothing of the official complaint made by someone to the WPCS. She is however riding the pony's mother (a bit bigger and a bit wider but not much!) and making her ridden debut so definately not for a small child) at PUK on Thursday so if anyone has anything to say they had better do it now!!
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Post by grrrrr on Apr 1, 2007 19:00:32 GMT
What a load of twaddle. If an a cant carry a 6 st rider then it is not worthy of a registration. I weigh quite a bit more and a chunky a should certainly carry me, i hava half a mind to buy one to show and see what gets said. Fetherston tell your rider not to give in to the sad people who obviously know nothing about the breed. Poor girl. Its this very thing which infuriates me about showing. at least you have the sense not to put a small kid on till the pony has learned it job. good for you.
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Post by little legs on Apr 1, 2007 20:20:48 GMT
I am in my late 20's now. I went on to horses when i was younger which is naturally expected. I'm 5'0 tall and weigh about 8stone. I hated horses. I loved my welshies and thank the lord for not having age restrictions on natives! I ride section A's and B's mostly and I love them. I love their character and their spirit and have never have more fun than when I'm competing them.
Over the last few years though (and I'm not sure whether its just to do with the wrinkles appearing on my face!!) I have started to come across tutting mothers and disapproving looks when i jump my little 12hh worker. Whats the problem??
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Post by dun4u on Apr 1, 2007 21:24:34 GMT
Hmmm.. but what about the bigger picture. Small pony, short back, big rider sat on the back of the saddle, making the pony sore and then the pony not moving correctly, ie legs trailing behing. Even worse if the saddle was not ever in balance to start off with. Big riders on small saddles do not work! Seen very many sore ponies that are being schooled and rider by too big a jockey for success in all spheres. From a judging point of view, it is the overall picture that catches the eye. With a tall rider, on the back of the saddle and knees on the shoulders you have to look really hard to assess the pony. It could be a really super pony but if it is swamped by it's rider then it doesn't catch the eye. Neither do I enjoy seeing adults warming up, riding-in, or whatever, in the warm-up area, on tiny ponies. It looks awful and I hate to see it. Haven't got the nerve to say anything, though!
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Post by little legs on Apr 1, 2007 21:45:46 GMT
I can see your point dun4u however doesn't stripping the pony clear that up. There are lots of people who still love to ride their natives and yes they do not look as pretty as a littly on board. But these ponies are hardy and strong. I know we all have to move with the times but lots of people just seem to be forgetting the tradition of the breeding in natives.
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Post by Sarahb123 on Apr 2, 2007 18:24:03 GMT
Section a's are more than capable of carrying a little weighter rider than a show pony, although think common sense should dictate when a rider would be to heavy. The lady i used to work for used to ride a small section a stallion stallion called three b mandys boy and she was around 5 ft. at the end of the day in showing its about the overall picture but if there is an older more experienced rider starting an unexperienced pony in the ring, particulary one that is going to be used for a child then surely its better and safer for the more experienced rider to start the pony.
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Post by My Bit on Apr 2, 2007 20:42:25 GMT
Just want to add that I too am in my early 20s weigh 7 1/2 stone and am approx 5'3". The Sec A I have just now is right up to height and has loads of bone. He is a right little rascal and although I know that one day he will make a great kids pony as I have so much fun with him - I feel that just now he would completly take the p*** out of a smaller jockey! I intend just to put up with any snide comments I get as I know that this pony is far from struggling to carry my weight!
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Post by dun4u on Apr 3, 2007 16:12:03 GMT
Just want to add that I too am in my early 20s weigh 7 1/2 stone and am approx 5'3". The Sec A I have just now is right up to height and has loads of bone. He is a right little rascal and although I know that one day he will make a great kids pony as I have so much fun with him - I feel that just now he would completly take the p*** out of a smaller jockey! I intend just to put up with any snide comments I get as I know that this pony is far from struggling to carry my weight! How I envy you!! Going back to my previous reply, I was thinking more of SP's & FR's rather than Native, being ridden in by an adult. After all, what is the point of a 'FIRST RIDDEN' if it has to be ridden in by a groom for half an hour before it's class?
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Post by sallyw on Apr 4, 2007 7:47:45 GMT
Well, thanks, folks. The girl who rides my ponies is so upset by what has been said that she isn't going to ride the a's at shows any more! That leaves me with a load of entries all ready gone in and no-one to ride - except my grandaughter who only rides the one pony. This pony, when it does do first ridden , incidentally will NOT be ridden by anyone else first. She is a complete saint and comes straight off the lorry and the child gets on. The others however, are either young or inexperienced and do in my opinion (and I have been doing this since before most of you were born) need to be ridden by someone bigger, more secure in the saddle and altogether more experienced before the graduate to becoming childrens ponies. If these lightweight teenagres (and indeed lightweight adults) think they are going to get grief for riding the samll m and ms you will see a lot more children being bucked of and so on in lr and fr. Get real and stop criticising those who DO know what they are doing.
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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2007 8:03:36 GMT
There are plenty adults out there that ride the smaller breeds like Dartmoors Section A,s Exmoors etc etc . Some of these are producers. As long as the rider is not a great big heavy lump then there should be no problems for the ponies. I would not take any notice of the unknowledgeable few fetherston.
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Post by totalagreement on Apr 4, 2007 8:28:59 GMT
I have to say Fetherston i totally agree with you and also feel for your jockey who sounds although they are feeling a bit like me at the moment. I have always ridden smaller ponies all my life and have never felt any pressure of being to big until this year. I am 24, 5'3 and size 10 and don't feel any section a or dartmoor i ride has ever struggled with me! I also groom for a top show pony producer who has no qualms in me riding there 12.2's, which do not have the bone or sunstance of m&ms. The section a i rode last year cld not go for a little kid at the beginning and needed stronger legs around it so i rode him, to be honest at 11.2 i did feel to big on him but trust me he never struggled! I currently have a dartmoor (12.2) and am dreading bringing him out now for fear of people saying I am far to big on him! However he is a stallion and there is no way most 11 year olds wld cope with him! I also have a section b but this year have felt under constant pressure to lose weight to get the picture 'looking better' even though the pony is going spot on, every time i now ride I am feeling conscious about it and to be honest it is taking the enjoyment out of it. I am at the age where I am to old for BSPS (even though people think i am still in 13.2's) and all i want to do is m&ms, does this mean i am now forced into large breeds as I am an adult! I always thought the idea of M&Ms is rider any age, making a difference from sp and shp classes. If size is that important now why don't the socieities go the whole way and put age limits on the classes!!!!!!! Making m&ms into unplaited plaited classes. I don't get what all the fuss is about Australia cope fine with adults riding sp's why does the UK have such a problem with adults riding natives?
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Post by geegee69 on Apr 6, 2007 7:09:28 GMT
I am pleased with the constuctive comments regarding the thread on large rider I started. I am afraid in the horsey world people are always going to bit*h about something or somebody! It is not going to stop! I feel we have to get on with what we wish to do and take no notice. These are beautiful ponies that generally need a good start to their education like any novice animal regardless of type and size. Those people that are experienced know that once bad habits establish themselves they can be difficult to stop. Large riders are providing a great service to the up and coming jockeys to take over well behaved and schooled ponies. Even if these ponies are not destined for little riders so be it! We all have a right to ride and produce what ever breed we wish. I would like to hear from anyone who has witnessed in the show ring a pony galloping flat out with a little jockey screamin in terror as the pony has taken off or a little rider being bucked off because the pony is over exhuberant and been dragged around the ring with their feet caught in the stirrup. I have witnessed these incidents and wouldn't wish it on anyone's child.
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Post by pinecreststud on Apr 10, 2007 20:31:35 GMT
Having owned a traditional sec a a few yrs ago (made 12.2) he would carry a adult (within reason) all day long and did as he was a little sod with the younger ones on him. But on the other hand the sec a mare we now have would never dream of putting an adult on her or anyone weighting over 7 stone. I think people mean that it doesnt always look a nice picture when the rider looks to tall for the pony.
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Post by maninthemirror on Apr 10, 2007 20:43:14 GMT
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Post by Isla@fiowen on Apr 10, 2007 21:03:52 GMT
wow you couldnt have picked a worser picture ther eis better ones on there rider of pictured pony, anyone who knows this pony will know he is novicey i have struggled to find a rider over 12 who is small enough and competitant enough to ride him, i have tried several small riders all who havent got on with him and until i find a rider i have no option
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lemmie
Junior Member
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Post by lemmie on Apr 10, 2007 21:10:41 GMT
Pincrests stud - I think it's incredibly rude/disrespectful of you to take a person's picture from a photographers website, without the rider/horse owners permission, and post it on a public forum aswell as making a statement about it - never mind the fact you are breaching copyright laws.
The above pony in question is extremely novice, and I know for the fact that the owner has searched for a smaller rider over the age of 12 to ride it - unfortunately there seems to be a lack of these jockeys that are within the correct age range and the correct height range. The pony is perfectly capable of carrying the jockey, and it is the judges choice whether this will considerably affect the pony's final placing. In addition to this - the rider was taking the pony in this class in order to help it gain confidence and experience, thus to avoid a situation in the future wherein the pony has a younger/smaller rider on, who may not be as confident in ring craft or other aspects of riding showing - etc.
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lemmie
Junior Member
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Post by lemmie on Apr 10, 2007 21:14:25 GMT
Just quicky like to add a bit more to my post - I note that you are not specifically saying anything rude about the rider, however by posting the picture it seems that you have left the jockey and pony open to public opinion, which I doubt the rider or owner would be incredibly happy about.
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Post by pinecreststud on Apr 10, 2007 21:16:53 GMT
Well Lemmie if you bothered to read my post I also asked to know who the combination was and also I only used the pic as a point to say the reason people will say the jockey to big so get off your high horse and read before jumping in feet first. I also said that in time the pony would make a nice ridden.
Also sorry Isla will remove pics didnt know it was you but was only pointing out what people where meaning by large/tall riders on small ponies.
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rtk
Junior Member
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Post by rtk on Apr 10, 2007 21:17:22 GMT
Just quicky like to add a bit more to my post - I note that you are not specifically saying anything rude about the rider, however by posting the picture it seems that you have left the jockey and pony open to public opinion, which I doubt the rider or owner would be incredibly happy about. I agree, its out of order
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lemmie
Junior Member
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Post by lemmie on Apr 10, 2007 21:29:10 GMT
Well Lemmie if you bothered to read my post I also asked to know who the combination was and also I only used the pic as a point to say the reason people will say the jockey to big so get off your high horse and read before jumping in feet first. I also said that in time the pony would make a nice ridden. Also sorry Isla will remove pics didnt know it was you but was only pointing out what people where meaning by large/tall riders on small ponies. Hence my second post in which I said that I realised you weren't personally saying anything horrible about them, but that it was putting them up for public opinion - something which I don't think they would very much like.
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Post by pinecreststud on Apr 10, 2007 21:40:30 GMT
Lemmie you must have put your second message on at the same time we did as i did not see it before i started to reply to your first message.
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lemmie
Junior Member
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Post by lemmie on Apr 10, 2007 21:42:45 GMT
Ok fair enough.
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Post by lincolstables on Apr 10, 2007 21:51:12 GMT
Sorry but have you all lost the essence of the very existence of the welsh breeds?? They were bred to carry the farmers uphill and down dale tending the flocks. This meant they were bred to carry weight. The way the stallion rules are set these days...it means that some riders are bigger than other classes, this is a must, you cant expect tiny riders to control stallions, so Im sorry but reading the majority of these posts on this thread you need a few lessons in horse management, and too stop your comments about things you have no clue about!!! Before you knock me down...I have bred and shown welsh As for 20 years, I have 3 welsh medal winning mares and 2 HOYS so Ive got some knowledge. This site will go knowhere with bit*hiness!!!!
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