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Post by bigmama on May 31, 2009 19:16:34 GMT
As far as I am aware R P Jones also judges ths way - giving a mark for the go round. Didnt see any evidence of this on the score sheet, not saying he doesnt but there was nothing suggesting he did on the mark sheets Mrs Higson did put evidence of this on her marks sheets ~ no we didn't win but still like this method of judging
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Post by jinja on Jun 1, 2009 6:50:07 GMT
I like the idea of a mark for the go round but is it practical in the big classes. Some horses get missed and some do naughty things and then get away with it, If the horse that gets pulled top has 10 marks more than something that got missed then there would be no way the horse that got missed could win. Also the horse pulled top could wrong leg it or spook and still beat something lower down the line that went better in its individual show because not many judges would knock off 10 marks for a minour fault.
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Post by bigmama on Jun 1, 2009 7:42:38 GMT
jinga ... i guess that the judge on the day would have to be a super confident, totally on the ball judge (which i would say Mrs Higson is) who would not miss anything but a good go round has to count for something ~ personally, i do not like those classes where after the go-round, the ponies/horses are lined up in open order .. in a large class and after each individual show, it can be difficult to remember who did a misdemeanor on the go round ... just an opinion ~ i guess each individual has their likes and dislikes of how a class is run
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Post by tafsmum on Jun 1, 2009 7:44:07 GMT
Didnt see any evidence of this on the score sheet, not saying he doesnt but there was nothing suggesting he did on the mark sheets Mrs Higson did put evidence of this on her marks sheets ~ no we didn't win but still like this method of judging Sorry I meant to say at Hambleton on the Sunday, I managed to look at the score sheets and there was no evidence to suggest that this was the case, I suppose they do this in a way anyway when they pull in order after the go around.
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Post by tafsmum on Jun 1, 2009 7:46:54 GMT
jinga ... i guess that the judge on the day would have to be a super confident, totally on the ball judge (which i would say Mrs Higson is) who would not miss anything but a good go round has to count for something ~ personally, i do not like those classes where after the go-round, the ponies/horses are lined up in open order .. in a large class and after each individual show, it can be difficult to remember who did a misdemeanor on the go round ... just an opinion ~ i guess each individual has their likes and dislikes of how a class is run Totally agree with this too, I think the go around is a good place to judge manners especially in a busy class, the good ones should be rewarded - it would also stop the over competitive riding in the go around - cutting up other competitors etc...
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Post by wornthetshirt on Jun 1, 2009 8:32:40 GMT
Sadly, I don't think anything would eradicate the cutting up of competitors, some may be purposful but some is complete ignorance and a lack of steering.
If a 3 point system is considered a good idea, put it to your Area Chairmen for discussion by the relevant Committee.
In a big class with tight time constraints, the marks sheets would need to be revised to officially record this. And, very numerate, on-the-ball Stewards. And, co-ordination between the various societies, or confusion would set in (yet again!)
When you read on another thread, that a show is desperately trying to find stewards, then that is added pressure to untrained helpers, unfamiliar with any system.
I do agree with the concept, though....
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Post by tafsmum on Jun 1, 2009 9:03:14 GMT
Yes your probably right to be honest, which is a shame because we generally get noticed because we stick to the outside in a nice steady rhythm dont cut up and judges seem to appreciate it. If others thought the same way there would cetainly be less chaos in the ring, especialyl the busy classes - it can get awfully frightening!
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joey78
Junior Member
Posts: 198
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Post by joey78 on Jun 1, 2009 12:25:50 GMT
In a big class with tight time constraints, the marks sheets would need to be revised to officially record this. And, very numerate, on-the-ball Stewards. When you read on another thread, that a show is desperately trying to find stewards, then that is added pressure to untrained helpers, unfamiliar with any system. Is it really much harder to add up 3 numbers than 2?? Assume total would still be out of 100....does this count as very numerate The go-round should really count in some way, either by marks or by initial pull in - it really annoys me when in a huge class they are pulled in any order then just go on marks, may as well not bother with go-round, just walk in , line up then do shows...althought suppose that would save ponies legs LOL.
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Post by wornthetshirt on Jun 1, 2009 14:01:57 GMT
It is essential to always have numerate, on-the-ball Stewards.
Mistakes can and do happen, even at Finals, with the presumed best available Stewards.
I think that the Steward often gets taken for granted. The great majority of them 'work' very hard ~ (I say 'work' - it is voluntary, apart from basic fuel expenses)
Maybe you missed the point of my comment, which was that the marks-sheet would need to be revised and, ideally, have parity between all the Societies, for continuity of thinking.
Oh, and I, for one, prefer to pull in any order when marks are involved, think it makes for a more level playing field.
And, I personally pay great attention to the way of going and manners when in company, which is the main reason for doing it in the first place. I believe that the great majority of Judges do.
Nearly any animal can ride a simple individual performance test.
Sorry, this is going away from reporting results!
~ Modified to add the apology for moving from the purpose of this thread, (it was already going that way, anyway!!)
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Post by jinja on Jun 1, 2009 14:25:23 GMT
I personally much prefer to be pulled in as at least you have a good idea if the judge likes your horse. I do however worry that sometimes in a big class you can get missed and if the horses pulled in at the top of the line have a big advantage points wise there would not be much chance of coming up from lower down to win. I think a good way is for the judge to point out the naughty horses and the stewards could make a note of the number of that horse then mark it down by 10 marks when it comes out to do its show. This way the naughty ones are penalised but any nice horses that have not misbehaved in any way but have been missed on the go round do have a fairer chance of moving up.
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Post by saz88 on Jun 1, 2009 16:57:31 GMT
I feel the stewards need to be given more authority..judges dont have eyes in back of head so a steward may..may inform the judge if they see something untoward - wish the steward had informed the judge when a particular rider for a certain producer used her horse as a ramming machine into our horse earlier this season!!
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Post by jinja on Jun 1, 2009 17:21:43 GMT
the go round should be taken into consideration and naughty horses and ponies penalised but letting stewards have a say in who did what could cause problems.
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Post by wornthetshirt on Jun 1, 2009 17:40:54 GMT
Stewards are there to carry out their stewarding duties.
Whilst some ARE sometimes Qualified Judges, some are not. However, they have not been booked to Judge on that day and should not intervene, interupt, or otherwise 'sway' the Judge/s.
If asked by a Judge to 'keep an eye on that pony' - particularly if a small child is struggling, that is a different matter.
And, if a Judge misses a misdemeanour somewhere, then he or she misses it.
But, rest assured, many of us DO have eyes in the backs of our heads!!
No, sorry, not a good idea.
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Post by jinja on Jun 2, 2009 15:16:25 GMT
worntheshirt can I ask you what you do if a horse misbehaves on the go round? as you have said you prefer to just line them up when giving marks, so do you deduct any marks for the go round
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Post by busybusy on Jun 2, 2009 15:26:05 GMT
We were "victims" of mistaken identity on a go round at the RIHS a few years ago. Our pony did a great go round (apart from a jump at the crackly speakers on entering the ring - about 6 of them reacted but ours settled quickly and no one was looking). He then came out and did a really lovely show and a blistering gallop. When the judge presented finalist rosettes to those not in the ribbons she commented to my daughter that he had done a lovely show - so it was a shame he could not behave on the go round! We could not imagine that the judge had spotted him react (slightly) to the speaker , let alone penalise him heavily - in any case he settled straight away whilst others around didn't. I am not saying we should have won but rather thought we may have picked up a lower placing rosette.
There was a very similar looking pony with a rider in identical jacket and similar shirt/tie etc. This pony was very unsettled in the go round....we think the judge had perhaps mistaken the two.
By the next show we had changed jacket and hat colour! He did 5 classes at the BSPS champs a few weeks later and was 1st, 2nd x 2, 3rd and 5th. He also won 2 rosettes at the RIHS the following year!
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Post by jinja on Jun 2, 2009 16:49:28 GMT
we once were unsettled on the go round at the RIHS, and our number was taken by the steward. Later when I looked at the marks our number had a star at the side of it and when I enquired what the star was I was told the judge had put the star so he would remember which pony was unsettled. I actually saw the steward take down our number at the time, and I think it is a very good idea.
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Post by wornthetshirt on Jun 3, 2009 12:10:15 GMT
Hi, Jinja, yes, I definately would make a (mental) note of either how well or how badly an aninal went in company.
To me, that (going in company) is more important than an animal simply giving a polished, well practiced individual display, all on its own. Might as well just have a simple dressage test, otherwise.. (I'm not saying that an individual show isn't important, of course it is; but it plays but a part of the whole.
And the day when my memory fails me will be the day I cease to adjudicate............
Hope that answers your question!!
(sorry, I did try to respond last night, but we live rurally and are at the end of a 'phone line, - if there's even the slightest small change in the weather, transmittion is awful. Last night the thing wouldn't play ball at all!!).
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Post by jinnylb on Jun 3, 2009 20:15:29 GMT
Does anyone know what was 1st and 2nd in the 128 138 and 148 show pony classes?
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Post by ernie on Jun 3, 2009 20:42:38 GMT
Does anyone know what was 1st and 2nd in the 128 138 and 148 show pony classes? In the RIHS qualifiers? Lucy Williams' Bay won the 128 ( Louise Curbishley) sorry thats all I can help you with
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Post by candyfloss on Jun 8, 2009 19:52:30 GMT
in the 138sp 2nd was Towan Mister Pickwick x x sorry carnt remember 1st
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