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Post by zeebeedee on May 25, 2009 18:30:31 GMT
I am a one horse amateur and last year we were fortunate enough to qualify first time out so of course we did more shows otherwise I would have had to find a new hobby. I think that down to third works well in the horse classes though cannot comment on the pony classes. Some classes are small in number but that doesn't mean that the horses in them are not all quality ones.
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Post by hollycane on May 25, 2009 18:44:34 GMT
Sadly whocares horses (rather than ponies) regularly qualify for RIHS and HOYS in walkovers or classes of 2. I've judged them already this year in RIHS qualifiers and results at all shows this week which were qualifiers for RIHS had horse classes of less than 4 entries. Unless there is a specific rule allowing witholding of qualification if there are not enough entries or not enough quality entries it will continue to happen. Also I really feel for amateur or non-pro people who have enteretd 3, 4 or 5 shows at £30 - £50 each and then luckily qualify first time out. It's a lot of money to throw away.
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Post by Grace1991 on May 25, 2009 19:38:33 GMT
I don't think you could stop a pony competing after it has qualified cus some people want to chase the whitside knowles/liley supreme etc and surely that would mean people would lose entry money.
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Post by squirly on May 25, 2009 22:45:46 GMT
think im slightly off topic but i think that once qualified you shouldnt be able to enter the class on the same pony/horse..by end of season top 3 usually qualified leaving no chance for others if qualification goes no lower than 3rd sorry, have to disagree with you slightly that's what keeps the competition so strong- you have to fight for a place- to beat the consistently top ponies. take my area for example there are quite a few superb 122cm shps in my area- all in top 5 at hoys, but then that's it. they are all competing against each other, have all qualified. now if you were to prevent these already-qualified ponies from competing, the RI classes would literally have zero entries. so i could just drag my hairy old sec A out of the stable- plait up, and win a RI ticket just like that
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Post by tafsmum on May 26, 2009 13:05:43 GMT
The connie class at Hambleton had 3 forward and one walked out leaving only 2 one got a ticket whilst 2 d's that i know of having competed at hoys were not even placed in the large breeds class it seriously needs splitting even if they just take the d's out!!
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Post by dsmum on May 26, 2009 17:02:08 GMT
Totally agree with nativeponies. I dont think horses that have qualified should be allowed to copete in the next qualifier. In the large traditionals/cobs I have seen the same professionals on the same horses being judged by each other at various qualifiers...I have also seen them stand in the top line-up I assume its to stop others qualifying. It got so bad that this class has almost no large traditionals in it anymore as the producers concentrate on the showcobs. I do support producers but think the principle of qualification should stand - i.e. once you have qualified you cant do it again for the same class!
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Post by dsmum on May 26, 2009 17:04:15 GMT
oops forgot to say that I also think traditionals and showcobs should have seperate classes.At blue barn this year they had trads/natives/showcobs/plaited/all heights in the same class. A nightmare. At Kent county they are putting the small and the large trads/natives and show cobs in the same class i.e. small ponies in with the large horses.....makes no sense. Im bound to get crucified now!
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on May 26, 2009 22:21:52 GMT
WOuld love to come up against only 3 in and RI qualifier (way our year gone tho' we would prob be eliminated!). We don't really do flat classes but would have to say that you need to jump RI tracks to get going round loads of different tracks! If you are lucky enough to win every time out well fabulous - each time is different judge and each time is different track! The smallest qualifier we have been in would have at least 13 ponies!
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Post by bigmama on May 26, 2009 22:28:32 GMT
The connie class at Hambleton had 3 forward and one walked out leaving only 2 one got a ticket whilst 2 d's that i know of having competed at hoys were not even placed in the large breeds class it seriously needs splitting even if they just take the d's out!![/quote) Totally agree that Welsh D's need to be split from H/F/D in RIHS M&M ridden quals and the large numbers in this class does appear to warrant a split
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Post by idoshowing on May 26, 2009 22:30:05 GMT
Agree too that the D's should have their own class - how would we go about it??
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Post by Cobbyzz on May 26, 2009 22:37:41 GMT
D's mum i couldnt agree with you more! when watching the the large hairy/cob classes the classes are dominated by mainly hogged cobs and hardly and trad cobs its about time thy split them and then maybe people wont be put off to show the large hairys!
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Post by ferret on May 26, 2009 22:53:40 GMT
i do think its luck of the draw TBH ...there were about 13 in the conni qual we won with our Conni it is very very hard to find good connis and even harder to find NF,s these days , which is why the classes are smaller ...although for HOYS there are regularily 20+ I too think Ds would benefit from being split into their own section , maybe collate the numbers from this year as evidence and send to BSPS ?
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Post by whocares on May 27, 2009 9:23:29 GMT
ferrett
I do think it would be a good idea to collate information as to numbers forward in RIHS and HOYS classes.
The BSPS gets details of placings so it could collect info about numbers forward from the judging sheets and take steps to ensure the RIHS qualification has some meaning. I rather doubt that this will happen but perhaps the owners of HOYS might take more notice as they did with the M and M workers several years ago.Perhaps the plaited whps and all low entry qualifiers should be replaced by the final of the Oli Townsend Challenge or a trailblazers,BE or Pony Club competition,organisers of which would view qualifying classes of no more than 20 as totally pointless.
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Post by crazylady on May 27, 2009 9:52:04 GMT
ferrett I do think it would be a good idea to collate information as to numbers forward in RIHS and HOYS classes. The BSPS gets details of placings so it could collect info about numbers forward from the judging sheets and take steps to ensure the RIHS qualification has some meaning. I rather doubt that this will happen but perhaps the owners of HOYS might take more notice as they did with the M and M workers several years ago.Perhaps the plaited whps and all low entry qualifiers should be replaced by the final of the Oli Townsend Challenge or a trailblazers,BE or Pony Club competition,organisers of which would view qualifying classes of no more than 20 as totally pointless. Why are you singling out the plaited whp's I have been to many shows this year where other classes have had very few in the qualifiers. I have also contested some Oliver Townend first rounds where there have been 4 in the class!!!! Whatever you say, the final at the RI (in the plaited and M&M workers) draws by far the largest viewing crowd of the outside rings and provides a really good spectacle. I know people who travel down with their picnics specifically to watch these classes.
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Post by Mercian on May 27, 2009 10:07:39 GMT
The entries in the WHP at Devon illustrate what a complete farce RI qualification has become. 3 in the 133s,2 in the 143s(both already qualified)3 in the Intermediates. If you are prepared to travel the country qualification is in the bag. Perhaps the BSPS should limit entries like BSJA 2nd rounds or limit qualification to premier shows and thus ensure Hickstead has some credibility. This year it will surely have very little. Meanwhile it is a great shame for Devon which is such a lovely show and generally well supported. What the ****! i have personally seen many other RIHS qualifing classes with less then 5 in the class so that puts a big hole though how you are singleing out WHPs. if the people are willing to travel to distances and try to get the qualification then good on them they still have to get around the tricky R. I qualifing courses. wherever you go I also recall as a spectator that in one of the classes two competitors had qualified but the other hadnt qualified went one to win that class. Also you have made a point about hicksteads credibilaty, i personally cant believe you would even put this into question i think it is a brilliant show on a brilliant showground and can be lots of fun, also to compete at hickstead is a great honour and many people may never get there it is just a question of trying and i think that even if you get there with little in your class it all depends on what you do the day, say if you qualified with a small number in your class it has no significance of you are going to do at the actual show say if you qualify with a small number in your class and you go on to win that just shows the quality of the pony and rider not the quality of the show you qualified at!!!!!
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Post by legalchick on May 27, 2009 10:48:14 GMT
Judges are actually allowed to award a rosette lower then those that qualify to prevent an animal qulaifying.
It happened to us many years ago with a RH that was naughty, and with only two in the class, we were awarded 4th and 5th rosettes to prevent the animals qualifying (and rightly so!).
I also understand that the same occurred at Shropshire NCPA show recently when an exhibitor was awarded a rosette lower then that which would have allowed them to qualify.
RIHS is a prestigious show and i think judges who are prepared to stand by their values should be applauded.
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Post by nativeponies on May 27, 2009 11:23:37 GMT
this can happen at any show..i saw a horse given 2nd with only 1 in the class because it was naughty, they dont deserve to qualify if naughty anyway!
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Post by crazy lady on May 27, 2009 11:39:39 GMT
Judges are actually allowed to award a rosette lower then those that qualify to prevent an animal qulaifying. It happened to us many years ago with a RH that was naughty, and with only two in the class, we were awarded 4th and 5th rosettes to prevent the animals qualifying (and rightly so!). I also understand that the same occurred at Shropshire NCPA show recently when an exhibitor was awarded a rosette lower then that which would have allowed them to qualify. RIHS is a prestigious show and i think judges who are prepared to stand by their values should be applauded. I totally agree - but just because there are low entries, does not mean necessarily that the winner (or qualifiying pony) is not of a suitable standard to compete at the finals.
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Post by busybusy on May 27, 2009 11:46:40 GMT
On the question of the RIHS whp qualifiers it must be a very rare day when there are only 3's and 4's in a class! Admittedly there are fewer competitors in the area where the original posters show was but they are still top ponies. Maybe it is a sign of the credit crunch that others were not prepared to travel such a long distance.
In the Midlands/NW area it is not unusual to have 20+ in a qualifier. As the ticket actually can pass down to the 5th placed pony as someone has already said it is virtually unheard of for no one to get the ticket.
As for competitors continuing to compete in these qualifiers, what you need to remember is in order to be prepared for Hickstead you need to have jumped some stiff tracks - these can be guaranteed in the qualifiers. Also many (but not all) of the RIHS qualifiers are also Blue Riband qualifiers (Desert Orchid) - a very difficult class to qualify for!! Someone could actually win 3 RIHS qualifiers BUT still need their Desert Orchid qualification, so they will contest further RIHS qualifiers which also offer this.
The competitors I feel sorry for are those repeatedly finding themselves runner up to the ticket, and moreso those who are runner up to someone who has no intention of actually competing at Hickstead!
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Post by springer on May 27, 2009 12:06:50 GMT
I think that RI & HOYS qualifiers should have the same rules as Olympia. Once you've got your ticket, even if you've entered other qualifiers in the show season which most people have, you can't compete in them with the same pony. It gives other people a chance then. It should be the same with the horse cloasses also so nobody blocks the qualification. Just my opinion.
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Post by nativeponies on May 27, 2009 12:11:35 GMT
exactly!!! is it not worth losing a few quid on pre entries if you've got your ticket? i think so!
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Post by bundle on May 27, 2009 12:16:16 GMT
Sorry but as I have already said - what do you want us to do for the rest of the summer if we are lucky enough to qualify early. We have one horse who competes at maybe 12 shows a year - to be penalised for doing well seems to me to be rather unfair!?
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Post by nativeponies on May 27, 2009 12:21:06 GMT
how many shows are on in this country every season? sure there is enough for people to do? and its not just hoys and rihs with decent tracks to jump..dont see the problem myself...we wouldnt do another if qualified..buts thats how i feel about it..happy to give others their chance too if we were that lucky!
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Post by busybusy on May 27, 2009 12:38:42 GMT
Nativeponies - should your daughter and lovely pony be fortunate enough to qualify for Hoys in the M&M workers (I know you did the first one as you did a nice post on your day) you would be well advised to jump a few more of these tracks in order to be as well prepared as possible! I know as we have been fortunate to qualify and compete at HoYs on several occasions in both plaited and M&M whp classes. Most non RIHS/Hoys qualifying M&M courses do not have the same degree of technicality and jumping efforts as the qualifiers. The "nerve jingling" effect on the jockey is also something they need to be used to!
Also for the plaited ponies as I mentioned in my above post some of the RIHS qualifiers are also qualifiers for the prestigious Blue Riband classes at the BSPS summer champs (both whp and other plaiteds). There are not many qualifiers for this class. To jump in the Desert Orchid is an aspiration indeed and a very difficult qualification to obtain.
Also some people will just enjoy competing at the particular show/venue that a qualifier is being held at (ie "local" county show, Royal, Royal Windsor etc.) For some people it is a cheaper day out to contest a qualifier down the road than a non qualifier an hour away.
Most people who show do so as they enjoy the day out/social side as well. Surely nativeponies and springer you are not suggesting that once qualified ponies should not appear until the various finals??
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Post by nativeponies on May 27, 2009 12:54:44 GMT
no, not suggesting that at all..i wouldnt stop taking any of ours out if they qualified..as for practice with the nerves, the nerves been there for 6 years!! think jockey got the hang of the nerves..well saying that it is me with the nerves not her!! lol...she loved every second of the course!! wants to go back this weekend but we cant, regrettably! courses can be made as technical as you like at home cant they surely?? maybe im too soft for my own good then as i know how hard it must be to get there and how much people like myself want it..so would feel i had to pull out of further qualifiers...ok maybe i am soft!! thanks for your comments re my pony!
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Post by legalchick on May 27, 2009 13:24:35 GMT
Nativeponies - should your daughter and lovely pony be fortunate enough to qualify for Hoys in the M&M workers (I know you did the first one as you did a nice post on your day) you would be well advised to jump a few more of these tracks in order to be as well prepared as possible! I know as we have been fortunate to qualify and compete at HoYs on several occasions in both plaited and M&M whp classes. Most non RIHS/Hoys qualifying M&M courses do not have the same degree of technicality and jumping efforts as the qualifiers. The "nerve jingling" effect on the jockey is also something they need to be used to! Also for the plaited ponies as I mentioned in my above post some of the RIHS qualifiers are also qualifiers for the prestigious Blue Riband classes at the BSPS summer champs (both whp and other plaiteds). There are not many qualifiers for this class. To jump in the Desert Orchid is an aspiration indeed and a very difficult qualification to obtain. Also some people will just enjoy competing at the particular show/venue that a qualifier is being held at (ie "local" county show, Royal, Royal Windsor etc.) For some people it is a cheaper day out to contest a qualifier down the road than a non qualifier an hour away. Most people who show do so as they enjoy the day out/social side as well. Surely nativeponies and springer you are not suggesting that once qualified ponies should not appear until the various finals?? i agree.
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Post by busybusy on May 27, 2009 13:31:54 GMT
We are not able to jump on grass at home so have to go out for practice and yes, you can make a course technical and big at home BUT you cannot recreate the distractions or the tensions for either pony or jockey. I am not suggesting you do every qualifier, but certainly need 2 or 3 under your belt (unless a very experienced combination). Mind you, however well prepared you are no one can explain to your pony that when they go into the Caldene arena to jump there will be "banks" of people all around them though!!
The Hoys M&M's don't carry any other qualifiers nativeponies and yes when they only pass down to 3rd you have to be careful. I agree that I would avoid at all costs taking a ticket from another competitor. Our pony had jumped very well and performed a good show in a qualifier when we already had the ticket. We knew that we were "in contention". My jockey knew exactly who had and hadn't got their tickets (this was a later qualifier - inside too so good practice with a few already qualified ponies). She said that if she was in the top 3....and it was the 3 ponies with tickets she would dismount and leave the ring so the 4th placed competitor would be elevated to 3rd. As it happened the winning pony had not already qualified!!
For the plaiteds, the Blue Riband qualifiers are another matter, but as has been mentioned with plaited pony hoys and rihs qualifiers passing down to 5th this is not a problem.
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Post by nativeponies on May 27, 2009 13:44:43 GMT
well that was a very nice thing for your jockey to say! yes i understand about the tonnes of people at ring side, but to be honest i do not think this would worry ours in the slightest!! if everyone could have the same attitude as your jockey the world of showing would be a far nicer place!
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Post by busybusy on May 27, 2009 14:05:57 GMT
Thanks nativeponies. We have met some lovely people at the ringside over the years. Many of these we are now fortunate to class as friends. Good luck with your efforts! Our season has been a little curtailed by difficulties in getting time off work, and no jockey for weeks on end!!
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Post by nativeponies on May 27, 2009 14:12:47 GMT
thanks busybusy! met some lovely people too! daughter says she'll volunteer if you get stuck! lol have a fab season
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