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Post by victoria (highhill) on May 27, 2009 19:28:47 GMT
If you stop qualified ponies from entering these classes once they have qualified, by half way through the season you could well have a situation where you have ponies who are maybe not a high enough standard qualifying; therefore meaning at the Finals at RI and HOYS you dont actually have the best ponies there. Some of these ponies would only ever be 5th or 6th in a strong class - should that be good enough to qualify???
Also would possibly give a false impression of the quality of a pony that has qualified when for example it is for sale-
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Post by Why on May 28, 2009 6:11:05 GMT
I think that RI & HOYS qualifiers should have the same rules as Olympia. Once you've got your ticket, even if you've entered other qualifiers in the show season which most people have, you can't compete in them with the same pony. It gives other people a chance then. It should be the same with the horse classes also so nobody blocks the qualification. Just my opinion. You are speaking like it is everyone right to be at RIHS! It is not, it is something you have to work hard for. I haven't qualified my horse yet but i don't feel that the others that have should not come into the class so that i can get an easy ticket. Amateurs especially do it for fun, some pay alot of money to have their horse produced why would they pay all that money to compete at a show in April and qualify and then not go in the ring again until July? One thing that does grind on me though is the same horses being dragged from one show to the next, when they have qualified? There is one that has been to 3 county shows across the south in the space of 7 days
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Post by um on May 28, 2009 7:44:57 GMT
If you stop qualified ponies from entering these classes once they have qualified, by half way through the season you could well have a situation where you have ponies who are maybe not a high enough standard qualifying; therefore meaning at the Finals at RI and HOYS you dont actually have the best ponies there. Some of these ponies would only ever be 5th or 6th in a strong class - should that be good enough to qualify??? Also would possibly give a false impression of the quality of a pony that has qualified when for example it is for sale- i dont actually think all the ponies that qualify are of a high standard especialy in the m and m workers some of the ponies that get round struggle and still win and then cant actually manage the course when you get there but that is because alot of the judges have never jumped a twig let alone fences out hunting.
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Post by girly on May 28, 2009 7:51:59 GMT
I think that happens more where the course is far to easy. Some this year have been a joke.
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Post by um on May 28, 2009 7:56:47 GMT
I think that happens more where the course is far to easy. Some this year have been a joke. too true Girly too true, they are ment to sought the men from the boys as it wereor we might aswel all do the ridden classes! x
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Post by whocares on May 28, 2009 18:39:43 GMT
I am delighted that this thread has prompted a bit of healthy debate.Lets hope the "powers that be" will monitor entries and ensure that a qualification is secured only following a true competition and not from classes of 2 or 3.I don't agree with preventing qualifiers from competing but I do think M and M qualifiaction should go further down the line. I was delighted to see good entries at Suffolk today in the WHPs classes and some super jumping ponies coming to the fore.
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Post by france on May 28, 2009 19:06:56 GMT
If you are lucky enough to have a beautiful pony who you have going well, then why not place it at some shows even if you have already qualified! Ask yourself - if you had a good horse / pony would you not want to show it - and be annoyed by others who say that you can't just because they have not qualified? ?
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Post by monkey09 on May 28, 2009 21:06:40 GMT
I do see everyones point on this but one thing i will say is what when you have a child who just want to go to shows every weekend becasue they love showing. There pony qualifies early in the yr so what are you going to do then tell them sorry we can only go to pony club shows now until the HOYS classes start. Then you are called for being a pot hunter? i just thing this is unfair to the child.
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Post by crazy lady on May 29, 2009 7:15:48 GMT
I am delighted that this thread has prompted a bit of healthy debate.Lets hope the "powers that be" will monitor entries and ensure that a qualification is secured only following a true competition and not from classes of 2 or 3.I don't agree with preventing qualifiers from competing but I do think M and M qualifiaction should go further down the line. I was delighted to see good entries at Suffolk today in the WHPs classes and some super jumping ponies coming to the fore. Now I am really confused!!!!! 2 of the worker classes at Suffolk had very poor number forward "single figures" was the word used earlier in your thread Unless I was completely mistaken, how many were forward in the Intermediate and 143 sections?
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Post by tafsmum on May 29, 2009 13:26:49 GMT
I think that happens more where the course is far to easy. Some this year have been a joke. The thing is with this class and courses is, it is a working "hunter" class and since when out hunting do you have to do a complex set of jumps. I dont think they should be ridiculously tight jumps in a workers course they should be ugly but able to have some rhythm around the course not having tight turns at every opportunity.
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Post by pencaedu on May 29, 2009 13:34:44 GMT
Quite right tafsmum... I am sick of seeing horses & ponies showjumping around workers courses. They should move on at a good speed. Took our TB ex-racer out earlier this season to a PC show - put a 12 y.o. girl on it who doesn't usually jump. Horse went on at a little faster than you would showjumping, and judge put her down the line for going too fast!!
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Post by girly on May 29, 2009 14:25:56 GMT
I can assure you Tafsmum I have seen some interesting compexes and tight turns out hunting. At least in a WHP class the jumps come down and you don't find wire strung through hedges or on the far side of a bank. You do at least get to see what is on the landing side as well.
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Post by nativeponies on May 29, 2009 15:03:31 GMT
girly..thats why my little girl doesnt do it!! even if i had all the money in the world i dont think i could let her go
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Post by whocares on May 29, 2009 15:43:58 GMT
Crazy Horse
You are absolutely right ! There were RI WHP classes at Suffolk with participants in single figures but at least there were more than 2or 3 forward and there was some competition for the qualification, although a class of 5 must be disappointing for the organizers. I should have said the number of entries was better! The conundrum of whether qualification can be justified when there are so few in the class remains.
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Post by nativeponies on May 29, 2009 15:59:14 GMT
i think it can be justified..mainly because it is no ones fault how few are in the class. Do the entry fee's get lowered as a result of very low entries? no, so unless they did it would be totally unfair to not give the qualification??
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Post by tafsmum on May 29, 2009 16:24:41 GMT
I can assure you Tafsmum I have seen some interesting compexes and tight turns out hunting. At least in a WHP class the jumps come down and you don't find wire strung through hedges or on the far side of a bank. You do at least get to see what is on the landing side as well. I'm sure there arn't ten awkward jumps in a row, and yes i'm sure they dont come down out hunting but then i wouldnt hunt my show horse anyway, workers is next best thing other than xc which i dont mind him doing either
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Post by another1 on May 29, 2009 19:22:06 GMT
Crazy Horse You are absolutely right ! There were RI WHP classes at Suffolk with participants in single figures but at least there were more than 2or 3 forward and there was some competition for the qualification, although a class of 5 must be disappointing for the organizers. I should have said the number of entries was better! The conundrum of whether qualification can be justified when there are so few in the class remains. You still haven't enlightened us as to why you singled out the workers, especially the ones at Devon (given that on the same day at Baston there were only 3 forward in one class and only 1 of those completed the less than usually difficult course - I understand!!
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Post by whocares on May 29, 2009 20:13:13 GMT
I used RI WHPs at Devon as an example . From the various responses, outside of the NW, it seems that the entries at Devon were no worse than any other qualifying show(Baston,Suffolk,South Suffolk,Area13B,Area13A etc) and it is common for there to be less than 5 in RI whp and some other RI qualifying classes . Wouldn't it be better if the classes attracted more entires and were more competitive. Better for the show running the qualifiers, better for those who qualify and better for the showing societies generally.
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Post by another1 on May 29, 2009 21:21:43 GMT
I used RI WHPs at Devon as an example . From the various responses, outside of the NW, it seems that the entries at Devon were no worse than any other qualifying show(Baston,Suffolk,South Suffolk,Area13B,Area13A etc) and it is common for there to be less than 5 in RI whp and some other RI qualifying classes . Wouldn't it be better if the classes attracted more entires and were more competitive. Better for the show running the qualifiers, better for those who qualify and better for the showing societies generally. And the flat classes................
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Post by crazy lady on May 29, 2009 21:29:58 GMT
I used RI WHPs at Devon as an example . From the various responses, outside of the NW, it seems that the entries at Devon were no worse than any other qualifying show(Baston,Suffolk,South Suffolk,Area13B,Area13A etc) and it is common for there to be less than 5 in RI whp and some other RI qualifying classes . Wouldn't it be better if the classes attracted more entires and were more competitive. Better for the show running the qualifiers, better for those who qualify and better for the showing societies generally. Would you count Area 10 as NW - because I would - and they were not so hot on entries! The qualifiers should surely be spread around the country otherwise the M6 would become a horsebox park at the weekends. If you expect those from the South, South West, Midlands, East etc to travel to the NW for qualifiers, then why cant those that live in the North West not travel to other areas. The motorway networks, especially in the NW are very good!
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Post by idoshowing on May 29, 2009 21:34:42 GMT
I don't think that the numbers in the classes matter half as much as the quality of those entered. You could have a class of 20 not so good horses & one of them qualify, compared to a class of 5 excellent ones & one of those qualify. There aren't that many examples in the whp qualifiers i've seen when the one that qualified didn't deserve it - no matter how many were in the classes.
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Post by crazy lady on May 29, 2009 22:19:34 GMT
I don't think that the numbers in the classes matter half as much as the quality of those entered. You could have a class of 20 not so good horses & one of them qualify, compared to a class of 5 excellent ones & one of those qualify. There aren't that many examples in the whp qualifiers i've seen when the one that qualified didn't deserve it - no matter how many were in the classes. Actually, thats what I am trying to say too! There are good ponies in other areas too!
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chaos
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by chaos on May 30, 2009 17:18:01 GMT
I used RI WHPs at Devon as an example . From the various responses, outside of the NW, it seems that the entries at Devon were no worse than any other qualifying show(Baston,Suffolk,South Suffolk,Area13B,Area13A etc) and it is common for there to be less than 5 in RI whp and some other RI qualifying classes . Wouldn't it be better if the classes attracted more entires and were more competitive. Better for the show running the qualifiers, better for those who qualify and better for the showing societies generally. Would you count Area 10 as NW - because I would - and they were not so hot on entries! The qualifiers should surely be spread around the country otherwise the M6 would become a horsebox park at the weekends. If you expect those from the South, South West, Midlands, East etc to travel to the NW for qualifiers, then why cant those that live in the North West not travel to other areas. The motorway networks, especially in the NW are very good! North West!? Maybe west, but definetly not North! some people seem to forget that these qualifiers are for the UK, not just England! It was also the day after Area 4B at Newark and the same weekend as Windsor. I think there should be more done to stop shows clashing as this often depletes entries. There are no HOYS qualifiers for the same class on the same day at qualifying shows; maybe RIHS should follow suit. And believe me, those in the NW do travel to other areas to try and qualify, because there aren't enough in the NW to match the numbers of ponies! And those in the NW are all in the space of 3 or 4 weeks i.e. pretty much all in May. It takes at least 4hrs to travel from the NW (which i would consider to be cumbria and lancashire, posibly cheshire - definetly not shropshire!) to a BSPS area with a number 5 or higher.
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Post by agent on May 31, 2009 8:18:08 GMT
And vice versa of course!!
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