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Post by nikki on Apr 17, 2007 8:43:58 GMT
Is there a problem with too many ponies being bred and an insufficient number of (suitable) buyers for them? I realise that certain native breeds seem very much in demand but is there a surplus of say sections A/Bs and Children's Riding Ponies? Is this why some end on the scrap-heap?
I have looked at various stud directories and have been astounded not only at the number of pony studs but the sheer number of ponies owned and bred by these studs. I may be 'shot down' for writing this but is it a case of sometimes inadequate consideration being given to the destination of the end product when deciding to put the mare into foal? Or are the studs the responsible bodies and it is the individuals who just breed the odd pony or two who cause a possible glut in the market?
There always seems to be a market (including overseas) for the very good quality/high standard ponies but where do the ponies of average or less than average standard end up? I was always taught that if you don't believe that your pony will excel in the show-ring, then at least ensure by good breeding it has good enough conformation and temperament to perform in other spheres.
Just wondered what others thought on this issue.
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Post by skint on Apr 17, 2007 9:14:38 GMT
I agree with you nikki, as you say some of the large studs have sometimes hundreds of ponies the vast majority being breeding mares, that one heck of a lot of foals each year and only a few of these will be top class. As you say the high standard ponies will always have a market but there is some real rubbish about. A lot of these ponies have dubious temperments to say the least but maybe this is due to how they were kept as youngsters rather than bred into them
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Post by morts on Apr 17, 2007 10:40:25 GMT
Well I am really surprised this hasn't been brought up before. Here in Wales every autumn there are literally hundreds of ponies of all ages ( a good may of them foals) at auction sales being sold for as little as £5-00 each. A good many of them are bought by dealers to cart around other markets or meat men to run them on till they are a little older and bigger and then slaughtered. A good many of these ponies are bred by well known studs and are treated as stock to be sold whatever. If you are looking for a good pony then come to the sales and not just Fayre Oaks, try Hay-on Wye sale or Brecon sales or a good many of the other wpcs association sales there are a good many bargins to be had
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Post by hairypony on Apr 17, 2007 15:41:41 GMT
Maybe its becuase of where I live or maybe I'm just unaware of what goes on by we seem to have to opposite problem! I help with a highland pony stud and we must have around twenty ponies in total but with keeping fillies/the odd colt for breeding, old mares and youngstock not ready to sell (we like to break them in at around 4 as they're worth more money) we have dozens more enquiries than we have ponies to sell! Probably only about one pony a year! I think one major factor in breeding-selling ponies is that most people want ponies (often for kids) that are broken, up and giong well - preferably winning and there is a shortage of people to get the ponies from what the breeders produce to what the buyers want. Only my thoughts, and I do agree that breeders need to think seriously about the qualities of their mare and stallion before breeding with temprament a strong consideration as ponies with bad tempraments often end up in bad hands.
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Post by nikki on Apr 17, 2007 19:10:12 GMT
Morts - I could never go to pony sales - it would break my heart if I thought any were being sold to the meat man and I would probably end up bringing them all home! But that was why I was posing the original question - are we breeding too indiscriminately? Should we as individuals act more responsibly?
I follow Children's riding ponies quite closely at shows and study results and breeding lines. Consequently it is often surprising to see some studs promoting their mares as 'big winners' or unbeaten when the reality is that they have scarcely been shown, do not have the best conformation and more often or not have been put into foal to a colt of the stud's own breeding (not always a bad thing I know). I do wonder how the offspring will turn out.
And Hairy Pony when I said certain breeds were an exception to this rule, Highlands were one of the breeds I had in mind as I know there is a great demand for these lovely ponies
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Post by poop on Apr 17, 2007 20:26:02 GMT
there is always a market for quality but it is the not so good ones that struggle. There are studs in wales that breed ponies like sheep and yes they might get a couple of stars amongst them each year but the others get sent to market with no regards to where they end up. Some of these foals should never have been born,weak and poor conformation - this is the major problem. On the other hand i know of very large studs that will cull their sub standard foals, whilst i'm not sure i could see this through(unless foal had a health problem) I actually think it is commendable that they do not condem these foals to an unknown and awful future existance. Its harder than just putting them in a sale and walking away.
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Post by morts on Apr 17, 2007 20:30:00 GMT
Nikki I completely agree with you, sorry my post didn't come across as intended. I too do not attend the "cheaper" sales for the very same reason, I was just trying to show that lots of studs down here breed large numbers of foals every year and those that haven't sold by the autumn are sent to these sales. As for the big "winners" that are scarcely shown, I went to a show a few weeks ago where a breeder was bragging to anyone within earshot, that " this sec A is unbeaten in hand and she would remain so under saddle as this would be her first and last ridden show" Well she was pulled in last and was moved up to 4th at the end but her owner/breeder was furious so I expect she will end up at Fayre Oaks this year.
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Post by nikki on Apr 17, 2007 21:02:24 GMT
Alas, I don't think the problem always lies with the studs who breed in quantity. A friend of mine had a 13.2 who didn't have the best conformation, had a very suspect temperament and thus struggled at county level. My friend disliked riding this pony and so what was her mum's solution to this dilemna - put the said pony in foal!
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Post by guest123 on Apr 18, 2007 8:51:00 GMT
A lot of the welsh studs breed only to show in hand and do not consider the suitability of their stock as ridden ponies. This leads to ponies that have firery temperaments, no space on their back for a saddle to sit and a glut of colt foals each year.
I know of three very top studs reducing the number of mares they put into foal this this spring as falling prices have made the breeding of 'top quality' ridden ponies unprofitable. People expect to buy a 3 or 4 year old pony of good quality, bang up to height, ready to show at the highest level for the same price they could get one for ten years ago. In 3 years time I expect to see a severe reduction in the number of quality young ponies available, however at the same time an increase in the number of unwanted welsh colts.
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Post by chocoholic on Apr 18, 2007 11:43:21 GMT
I personally feel that this is a significant problem that is not easy to resolve: 1) People breeding from a mare that has suspect temperament or soundness for whatever reason with no thought as to how the foal could turn out; 2) Breed societies not being careful enough to ensure that only the best quality animals are used for breeding (I appreciate that some are trying to resolve this issue) 3) Studs breeding large numbers in the hope that one turns out to be a world beater. I don't think that there is an easy solution, but sadly in the meantime this can cause large amounts of suffering to some horses/ponies that do not make whatever grade they are meant to be.
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