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Post by mandmfan on Feb 1, 2010 18:48:27 GMT
6 year old pony - capable of going very nicely and in a good outline but only on his own terms and when he dictates. Can ride him for a good hour with minimal contact (not necessarily in the school but out hacking as well) and just push him on with your legs into the bridle and eventually he will drop down for you. But once his head comes down as soon as you take up a contact, immediately his head comes up (quite high). Just seems to being resisting contact at all costs. His teeth and back been checked (no obvious problems) and have been told that it is just 'attitude'. Has quite a small mouth but a fleshy tongue and is currently ridden in a loose-ring jointed snaffle. I wonder if he would prefer a straight bar snaffle or a ported bit that would allow room for his tongue. I just don't want to spend a lot of money on bits that make no difference. I wish you could get bitting experts to do home visits (like saddle fitters) and bring a selection of bits with them. Incidentally he lunges very nicely in a pessoa with no resistance at all. He is quite a nosy pony and seems to prefer to carry his head very high so that he can keep any eye on everything. Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts, ideas and advice?
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Post by sageandonion on Feb 1, 2010 19:12:55 GMT
You can actually get home visits for bits, neule schule do them. A friend had them but it wasn't cheap.
My personal opinion is, this doesn't sound like a bitting issue rather an unhappy mouth. If you have already had his teeth checked, I would have them looked at very carefully again and by someone different, possibly under sedation for a thorough exam unless he is a really good just stand there pony. This is because you say his head comes up 'immediately' so I don't think he will take the time to try a new bit for a while before doing this. It would indicate immediate mouth pain to me or the memory of mouth pain.
Secondly, I would have a qualified and respected instructor ride the pony on a few occasions to see if pony does this with another good jockey. Instead of pushing him into the bridle with your legs which particularly with ponies can create speed rather than impulsion, try lots of suppling exercises including leg yielding on the straight and in and out on a circle and transitions.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 1, 2010 19:53:22 GMT
I had to reshape a big WB who came to us "upside down" and I was taught to ride him into the bridle and then as soon as he dropped onto the contact, soften hands immediately as a reward to show him what is wanted. That's not drop him completely but just relax and soften them so that the contact is very light. I second S&O's suppling exercises too. If your snaffle is a single joint maybe he would find a double-jointed one more comfortable? Do you have a friend with a big bit collection who might lend you bit(s) to try? Many people who do have horses in and out collect and hoard bits.
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Post by brookhouse on Feb 1, 2010 20:39:02 GMT
yes thats how I train mine to, leg on and when they drop give my hands as a reward and they soon know, lots of transitions with your seat up and down lots of troting on long and low if he likes to be high to train him too stretch hack him out long and low then later pick him up when he is relaxed , you must not force his head in as yes he will resist .
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Post by mandmfan on Feb 1, 2010 20:57:14 GMT
Thanks for useful advice/ideas. My instructor has ridden him a couple of times - he goes very well for him but he is a much stronger rider than me. It is my instructor who has told me that 'attitude' is his problem.
The problem is Brookhouse is that he never goes long and low - just wants to stick his head in the air. And I don't force his head in. I wait until he drops down on his own accord and then I try to take up a gentle contact - but that is when his head comes straight up again.
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Post by sageandonion on Feb 1, 2010 21:22:39 GMT
I am presuming you are a lady mandm. It is all very well watching strong chaps (or actually some physically strong ladies) riding our ponies, but we can never replicate that type of riding and some don't want to. The last thing I would think you pony has is 'attitude' that word is often used for a pony that does not conform immediately to a particular style of riding.
If your pony is a slightly less than athletic build, he will need more suppling and losening of his muscles to be able to work in a outline. He might say 'I don't like doing this because it is uncomfortable for me right now, I am not a blimming warmblood' and that will be 'attitude' for some trainers.
What about trying a different instructor, preferably not a so called specialist dressage trainer (and dressage is my thing). Often you can find someone if you do riding club clinics and try lots of different ones.
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Post by mandmfan on Feb 2, 2010 10:11:04 GMT
Yes Sageandonion I am female and a very lightweight one! I actually have 2 instructors both of whom have ridden him. Although the male instructor is obviously a lot stronger than me he is what I term a 'gentle' rider and in no way has to force the pony to go nicely. The lady instructor has also ridden him and again he goes nicely for her although initially a little more resistant. So it probably boils down to me and my riding capability but I think I will pursue your suggestion of getting his mouth checked out again. I don't mind the resistance in the school so much because I know eventually he will listen to me and obviously you feel safer within the confines of a school but out hacking I can find it quite unnerving when he sticks his head up in the air, is looking at all and sundry and seems oblivious to me on top.
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Post by sageandonion on Feb 2, 2010 13:28:20 GMT
I know what you mean there as well! I am all for schooling and using mild bits as well as the physical checking etc. and we continue to strive for the ideal world. However, in the meantime and until you have your pony listening to you, safety is paramount and I would hack with a martingale and a stronger bit. Your safety and confidence is very precious but not only that, if he continues to go along in his alert and you are not there posture', he will be working and developing all that bulky under the neck muscle which will make your job in the school even harder.
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ally
Junior Member
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Post by ally on Feb 2, 2010 14:46:51 GMT
i completely agree with sarahp! that would be my exact advise
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 2, 2010 16:46:20 GMT
Before we got to the riding and teaching outline stage with the upside down WB I did a lot of lunging with him to develop the correct muscles - you can see them working so know when the right ones are being used. Long and low to start with to teach him to stretch them first, I'm not a gadget person but this horse would never have changed without some encouragement, long time ago but now I'd use a bungy - elastic over head, through bit rings and between legs to girth adjusted as loosely as possible to enable him to go down and forward easily but would come into play if he stuck his head up in the air. Elastic cannot be leaned on like something fixed, but increased pressure is not that comfortable so he would be encouraged to alleviate it by carrying the head lower.
And I'd second S&O in hacking out in a martingale (old-fashioned standing one for me) for safety's sake.
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Post by eatmyshorts on Feb 27, 2010 1:13:43 GMT
If you do want to try another bit, a friend of mine runs a Myler bit bank - where bits can be trialed for 3weeks. Her website is www.abitdifferent.co.uk/ She's very helpful & will advise & even look at photos of your ponies mouth conformation to help suggest the right bit. If you do decide to try a different bit, do bear in mind it'll take the pony (especially as this one seems sensitive in his mouth) a good week or so to settle in it, so dont make any rash decisions. My hubbys big horse, who is only recently back in work after a good few years off, is very similar to yours, he'll go soft & round with no contact, but objects to a contact of any sort & goes giraffe-like! We're just concentrating on getting him forward & coming through from behind, while picking him very gently when he offers self carriage to a place he's comfortable, without forcing or holding him into an outline.
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Post by sageandonion on Feb 27, 2010 16:00:40 GMT
Actually it was Myler, not neule schule that did the bitting visit for my friend's yard. They are also advertising bitting demonstrations at various venues in the country at the moment.
I don't use Myler myself but many people say they are good.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 27, 2010 17:44:25 GMT
My daughter's old horse was used as a guinea pig at one of these demos and it was really great, they advised her exactly which one to use and he was great in it.
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Post by manes&muzzles on Feb 27, 2010 19:06:27 GMT
im in Germany at the moment, whilst here I've been having Dressage lessons (no such thing as showing hehe ) off a very good instructor..she said out off 100% of riders only 60-70% stretch the legs before getting on and only 20% stretch their horses necks before setting off. I had to admit and say although I always stretch a horses legs I didnt know how to flex and stretch the neck "BEFORE" setting off.She said take four treats in your pocket and mount and stand the horse square then lean forward and let him know theres a treat there lead him with the treat to your leg and give him...then repeat on the other side then repeat again but a little further back than your leg. xxxx hope it helps xxxx
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 27, 2010 19:52:16 GMT
One of our physio's standard exercises - known as "carrot stretches!". But performed on the ground not mounted.
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Post by mandmfan on Feb 27, 2010 21:26:09 GMT
Thank you everyone for your helpful advice. Four weeks down the line I am glad to say that there has been some progress. Still a long way to go but pleased with things so far. I have not changed the bit yet but do hack out in a running martingale. He is now accepting contact quicker and more readily. I just have to be careful to take it up gradually. I do the carrot/neck exercises whilst on the ground but not the leg exercises so shall do them. By the end of my lessons really working nicely although haven't cracked the beginning of lessons yet!
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