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Post by Ponder on Apr 17, 2010 18:51:24 GMT
Is there any truth in the rumour true that the BSPS have banned their Areas from holdign Equifest qualifiers?
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Post by both on Apr 17, 2010 19:07:43 GMT
Yes it is true.
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Post by Ponder on Apr 17, 2010 19:16:54 GMT
Why?
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Post by Either on Apr 19, 2010 7:19:47 GMT
Is it because Equifest is a threat as cheaper, competition is as good/better and taking people away from bsps??? Friends of mine have decided that this year they are doing Equifest rather than bsps champs (allthough they are bsps members) as there are more classes/ choice for their 2 ponies and it works out cheaper to take two to Equifest rather than one to Bsps!
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Post by norwalk on Apr 21, 2010 8:09:04 GMT
I've not really looked at equifest yet, but I do think that bsps have got us over a barrel with SPs! Its expensive having to be member just to ENTER HOYS classes whether you're aiming at qualifying or not!!! Unfortunately a lot of the shows we enjoy doing have HOYS status, but we still want to go for a nice day out even though we've got a novice out this year......
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Post by trier on Apr 21, 2010 11:55:30 GMT
BSPS all the time. At least they have rules, the judges come from a panel and have been assessed. The only negative for BSPS is Arena UK but I wear my rose coloured glasses and pretend we are at Peterborough. The people are the same. And, I don't think they have banned areas from holding Equifest qualifiers - rather that they have said that they would prefer the areas not to advertise their show
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Post by notloggedin on Apr 21, 2010 13:00:48 GMT
I doubt that Equifest would be quite so cheap if they had to hold judge training and assessment days! I imagine that the BSPS (and other societies) feel that using panel judges that have been trained and assessed at other society's expense is taking a bit of a liberty?
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Post by Blaze13 on Apr 21, 2010 13:02:45 GMT
At the end of the day most people are feeling the pinch, with the cost of fuel at an all time high and some entries going up, I think it makes sense to go where its going to cost less money.
Ive looked into Equifest and as its cheaper all round, I think my daughter will be going there.
Every one has their own preferences - ideas - comments, but with money being so tight (as I'm sure it is for a lot of people) we have had to cut down the the amount of shows that we attend, so for this year at least it's going to be Equifest. There seems to be a lot of classes, lets hope the weather is going to be good for everyone.
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Post by Old timer on Apr 21, 2010 14:47:42 GMT
The BSPS should never have moved from Peterborough. It's facilites made it great to go to. Arena UK has improved but the facilities don't match the number of people attending the show. So many kids were ill at the winter champs that it was surprisng it wasn't shut down on H&S grounds
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Post by Be fair on Apr 21, 2010 19:50:26 GMT
I think that it a slur on the judges at Equifest - if you look at those who have judged since it first started they have all been either BSPS or BSHA or other panel judges. Betsy has encouraged new young judges for the Riding club classes which is good news for young judges. At the end of the day I think the BSPS is wrong to 'bar' qualifiers from their shows but understand why they are concerned. Just look at the drop in entries and income at last years champs. I also believe they should have swallowed their pride and returned to Peterborough - most members would pay more for better facilities and rings. Interesting that the Heritage champs are moving this year - maybe there is hope yet that they will move the winter and summer champs from Grantham. The BSPS champs will always be the 'creme de la creme' of showing but hopefully there is room for the fun that is Equifest as well.
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Post by notloggedin on Apr 29, 2010 11:52:41 GMT
Be Fair, I wasn't suggesting that the judges at Equifest are second rate. I was pointing out that most of the judges they use are from other panels, who are trained/assessed at the expense of those societies and their members. Perhaps this is why BSPS and other societies are not keen on Equifest qualifiers being held at their show.
If Equifest had to develop their own panel then they would have to pass on the costs (for training/assessments and admin) in their entries like all other societies.
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Post by denzil2008 on Apr 29, 2010 12:21:07 GMT
EQUIFEST all the way here .... so much better cheaper freindlier show and the judging i have seen is very fair!!!!!
my advice is try it as its doubled in size and will again still
well done betsy
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Post by bundle on Apr 29, 2010 12:50:31 GMT
Personally I think it was quite short-sighted of the BSPS to move to Arena UK and away from Peterborough. They thought the charges would go up but there was not indication that the rumour was true. Now Equifest has a lovely arena that 90% would rather go to which will swing it for a lot of people. We have finished showing now but I must say how glad I am we had the Peterborough years.
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Post by saz88 on Apr 29, 2010 18:49:04 GMT
BSPS has lost its sparkle for me, poss due to fall in numbers. It has become apparent over last few years how connected everyone is.....we show for our hobby which should be fun and pleasurable, where you make friends and are happy for other people success.....not bitter, back bitting.
Equifest sounds like a brill venture that is going from strength to strength, watch out BSPS the tide maybe turning!
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Post by hollycane on Apr 29, 2010 19:43:35 GMT
To say that the other societies have expended lots of money on holding assessment days and training judges is not really true. Up until quite recently there was no judge training or assessment days and then no charge was made to some societies for the use of facilities on assessment days or horses etc. As for training, most judges train them selves. I think the pony societies fund some young judge programmes but other than that I'm not sure anything has been available at all. Judges should be able to choose where they judge and are always honoured to be asked. Good on you Equifest, sounds like you are putting the feelgood factor back into showing.
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Post by kt66horses on Apr 29, 2010 21:49:17 GMT
Surely if you are saying that Equifest are using judges trained by other societies then this also applies to all the Agricultural shows throughout the country who hold various classes and use panel judges too. We attended Equifest last year and were judged by different judges throughout our stay there - all were panel judges from different societies and all judged fairly and well. Surely it is upto the judges themselves where they judge , not the panels that have awarded them their judging status?
Equifest is cheaper all round - when you are taking 5 ponies and various children to compete them over the 4 days it makes a lot of difference in how much you have to spend!!!!!
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Post by dancer on Apr 29, 2010 22:00:01 GMT
We gave up BSPS when they moved to Arena Uk - loved it at Peterborough but won't join again unless they move. Where are the Heritage Champs moving to?
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Post by mcw on Apr 30, 2010 6:42:37 GMT
We gave up BSPS when they moved to Arena Uk - loved it at Peterborough but won't join again unless they move. Where are the Heritage Champs moving to? All BSPS CHampionships are held at Arena UK now, me thinks x
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Post by chloesmum on Apr 30, 2010 7:34:06 GMT
Might be wrong but think I read in the news review that the Heritage champs are moving to somewhere near Rugby - Olney??? Never been to this place or heard of it so if anyone has any information it would be appreciated as we love this show. I guess it might be a little closer for us not sure, just hoping it has better stabling facilities although I love the rings at Arena UK.
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Post by bigmama on May 1, 2010 8:51:50 GMT
I doubt that Equifest would be quite so cheap if they had to hold judge training and assessment days! I imagine that the BSPS (and other societies) feel that using panel judges that have been trained and assessed at other society's expense is taking a bit of a liberty? Equifest is 'so cheap' because it is run by the east of england agric soc at their OWN showground, so they dont have the cost of hiring a venue, which does make a huge difference Also, Equifest is not tied up in negativity, red-tape and never-ending rules so, rather than the negatitive, it focuses on the positive and giving competitors great value for money and a fantastic time in a wide range of day and evening classes. Looking forward to our third year at Equifest and wishing everyone who works/competes there much success and happy dayz!
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Post by lecfec on May 1, 2010 11:51:47 GMT
On the BSPS website it says the Heritage will be held at Onley Equestrian Centre, Daventry, Warwickshire.
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Post by wornthetshirt on May 2, 2010 15:24:54 GMT
To say that the other societies have expended lots of money on holding assessment days and training judges is not really true. Up until quite recently there was no judge training or assessment days and then no charge was made to some societies for the use of facilities on assessment days or horses etc. As for training, most judges train them selves. I think the pony societies fund some young judge programmes but other than that I'm not sure anything has been available at all. Judges should be able to choose where they judge and are always honoured to be asked. Good on you Equifest, sounds like you are putting the feelgood factor back into showing. Hollycane, that isn't quite true - Societies such as the NPS and the then British Show Hack & Cob Association were assessing and organising training days from at least 1975 and most probably before then. BSPS and now NPS hold Young Judges competitions at their Championship shows - these are self-funded by the relevant Areas and are a great way of educating the next generation of Judges. They also enable the Young person/s to see things from the other side of the fence. However, without playing devils advocate, I do think that it is wrong for some of the new, popular, 'non-affilliated' shows to free-load by inviting QUALIFIED, experienced judges, many of whom have been carefully assessed/trained by Societies and Associations of long-standing.
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Post by rubyshoes1 on May 2, 2010 17:46:47 GMT
Do judges have a contract with the societies that trained them? Is their an exclusivity clause? IMO, As judges are only paid expenses they are not tied to the societies that trained them initially, presumably it is up to the individual judge as to what appointments they take, I would imagine they would be available to whoever invites them.
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Post by Sunny days on May 2, 2010 20:00:27 GMT
If you choose to be assessed you should be able to share your skills across the horse world and give back to everyone not only the societies who examined you. Judges gain their "Know how" elsewhere and choose which panels they would like to represent. They wouldn't be criticised for assisting at local or club level so there is no reason they shouldn't accept invitations to officiate at Equifest. Thank you Betsy and East of England for giving everyone a show with fabulous facilities they can afford and enjoy.
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Post by Blaze13 on May 2, 2010 21:08:55 GMT
If you choose to be assessed you should be able to share your skills across the horse world and give back to everyone not only the societies who examined you. Judges gain their "Know how" elsewhere and choose which panels they would like to represent. They wouldn't be criticised for assisting at local or club level so there is no reason they shouldn't accept invitations to officiate at Equifest. Thank you Betsy and East of England for giving everyone a show with fabulous facilities they can afford and enjoy. Well said Sunny Days, couldn't have put it better myself.
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Post by wellsaidsunnydays on May 2, 2010 21:10:33 GMT
I agree Betsy should be receiving all the thanks we can give, great show, great venue and at the right price, unlike the rip off that are other championship shows! Panel judges judge at local, grass roots type shows, why shouldn't they judge at Equifest? The quality of ponies is fantastic and we will contiune to support them all the way!
Atleast at Equifest we are made to feel welcome, as for BSPS, enough said!
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Post by wornthetshirt on May 3, 2010 15:31:39 GMT
To say that the other societies have expended lots of money on holding assessment days and training judges is not really true. Up until quite recently there was no judge training or assessment days and then no charge was made to some societies for the use of facilities on assessment days or horses etc. As for training, most judges train them selves. I think the pony societies fund some young judge programmes but other than that I'm not sure anything has been available at all. Judges should be able to choose where they judge and are always honoured to be asked. Good on you Equifest, sounds like you are putting the feelgood factor back into showing. Hollycane, that isn't quite true - Societies such as the NPS and the then British Show Hack & Cob Association were assessing and organising training days from at least 1975 and most probably before then. BSPS and now NPS hold Young Judges competitions at their Championship shows - these are self-funded by the relevant Areas and are a great way of educating the next generation of Judges. They also enable the Young person/s to see things from the other side of the fence. However, without playing devils advocate, I do think that it is wrong for some of the new, popular, 'non-affilliated' shows to free-load by inviting QUALIFIED, experienced judges, many of whom have been carefully assessed/trained by Societies and Associations of long-standing. It has been brought to my attention that, by my comments (above) I was pehaps favouring one show/society over another and, to put the record straight, that was not the case. It was simply my intention to mention that some Breed and some Showing Societies had been training/Assessing judges for a great many years. I would be concerned, however, if a serious accident were to occur at a non-afilliated show (at any level) - do we as Judges check out the H&S requirements before officiating? Whilst helping at a (non-affilliated) show last year I found it necessary, on numerous points of safety, to make radical course changes prior to judging a WHP 'final'. As a qualified person and as an Assessor, I spotted the glaring and worrying errors immediately, but was met with hostility by the well-intended but amateur person who had erected said 'course'. But, I could not risk the safety of the competitors, nor could I risk my reputation with the various Societies for whom I usualy officiate. I was NOT entering into the debate which is the title of this thread and I apologise if my post was misleading.
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Post by Hack'Doff on May 17, 2010 11:25:22 GMT
We've dropped PUK in favour of Equifest. But still believe that BSPS and the standard bearers.
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Post by killqueen on May 17, 2010 15:35:25 GMT
EQUIFEST in favor of puk and bsps
Well done Betsy and keep the good the work, hope to see you soon
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Post by soph on May 17, 2010 18:03:07 GMT
Went to equifest last year and loved it! Great rings, well organised, very helpful staff, beautiful rossettes, lovely evening performances! There are some top quality ponies at Equifest many classes filled with HOYS/RIHS/Olympia ponies. Would never go to ponies UK again, for us personally its lost its buzz and ive not been to impressed by the judging as a whole...also very very expensive!
However we will most probably doing BSPS and Equifest this year.
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