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Post by Guestless on May 10, 2007 19:44:06 GMT
I'm using a thread that Oldie has posted elsewhere as the catalyst for this thread as I think we could have a good debate about it. She said For me personally, I don't mind ponies doing novice and open so long as they are genuinely eligible - what I dislike is seeing ponies that have qualified for good open affiliated championships still being eligible for BSPS novice classes. Someone doing novice classes again and again, year in year out, doesn't really annoy me either as I think there will be some ponies that simply aren't capable of winning an open class and so I don't see any harm in them carrying on in novice tbh. Older novices don't annoy me either as I do believe ponies are entitled to have had a career other than showing for a good part of their lives.
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Post by fjudge on May 10, 2007 19:50:43 GMT
Totally aggree with what guestless has said so wont bother repeating!
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rtk
Junior Member
Posts: 107
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Post by rtk on May 10, 2007 21:21:54 GMT
The only thing that really annoys me is the top class ponies who's owners find a new jockey every year so they can win the novice at local riding clubs, sad or what.
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Post by johnwayne on May 10, 2007 21:26:59 GMT
Thanks for picking up on this topic, - have given you a Karma in appreciation . Should have said . . . 'year after year getting placed in Open classes'. It is possible to be 2nd in every Open class, and then go and compete in every Novice class, year in, year out. Example: last year, an M&M was 3rd in Olympia Qualifier, then did the Novice class at the same show. Yes, it was eligible, but is it really Novice? (Pony was placed, didn't win.) When I was showing years ago, this would have been seen as blatant pot-hunting. Perhaps now it is blatant Performance-Award-Point-Hunting! I show only as a hobby, none of this makes any life-changing difference to me, but I do very much believe in equal playing fields/fair play etc..
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Post by abe on May 10, 2007 21:31:38 GMT
I must say that I think it differs from flat to worker classes. On one hand, my pony is open in the flats but is still a bit shakey and maturing slowly so could have done with another year of novices. She does get outshone in some classes as she is suddenly up against ponies who have been doing this for years so we are really looking at a season with few red rossettes until she strengthens enough in her performance to be able to really compete in open.
Yet in the workers, she is a genuine absolute novice but is up against ponies that really have been doing it for years! Ponies stay novice until they are six unless they have been to Hoys. In our very first workers we were thrilled to get round the course (with one knock down) but knew that there was little chance of a rossette as most of the horses were old hats at the workers!
It does annoy me because I think the owners should really know, irrespective of the rules when their pony is out of the novices, and equally doing the picton and they Hoys at the same show is silly-your pony is either novice or open!!! But the difficulty is that the rules (for flat classes) restrict ponies on basically how many competitive years they have done, rather than how quickly they have progressed. I would like to see a rule saying that you EITHER compete in Hoys classes or novices which would mean people would have to choose whether the pony is advanced enough to do the big classes, and once it is you then can't go and dominate the pictons!
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Post by Guestless on May 10, 2007 22:03:02 GMT
last year, an M&M was 3rd in Olympia Qualifier, then did the Novice class at the same show. Yes, it was eligible, but is it really Novice? (Pony was placed, didn't win.) Perhaps now it is blatant Performance-Award-Point-Hunting! Now that, I totally agree with....but performance awards are a bugbear of mine (and I apologise to anyone who is fed up reading what I have to say!) as IMO they usually encourage people to compete at as many shows as possible to gain points, regardless of how fed up the pony may be.
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Post by Enthusiast on May 11, 2007 8:01:57 GMT
I don't think people plan there seasons very well or look for a long term gain anymore. Everybody seems to want things so quickly which is why in my opinion we see ponies that are still novices doing both novice & open classes. As an example i would ride a novice pony in a snaffle, if that pony needed a little more ring experience & i was at a show with novice & open classes then i may put the pony in the open class for the experience, but still in the snaffle, & by an open class i am talking a kingsford qualifier not an Olympia! If the pony is happy going in a double bridle, pelham etc is it still a novice?? I believe that a novice should be just that until it is ready for opens, it doesn't do pony or jockey any good to sit down the line simply because the pony is immature, however i have voted that it is not acceptable to be a novice for years & years. Being a novice is just that & not an excuse for the pony not being good enough to make the transition to Open classes or for pot hunting. That sounds really harsh..... sorry.
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Post by 4fun on May 11, 2007 8:15:22 GMT
I believe that if a novice pony is good enough to do HOYs and Olympia then it should be allowed, especially the small breeds. For example we have a sec A that did very well in M&M FR HOYs qualifiers last year, narrowly missing qualification. One judge actually commented that 'he was more of an open pony'. This year my daughter is contesting Picton, HOYs and hopefully Olympia qualifiers as he is good enough. My daughter knows her pony and is now too old to do first ridden. Next year she will be too big to ride him, so why shouldn't she be the one to take the pony she has ridden for the last three years into open classes?
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Post by pho3nix on May 11, 2007 8:25:37 GMT
What spoke volumes for me on this subject was when the Judge said to my partner, "Oh so you're on a proper baby then" after asking every rider the age of their horse.
This was not so long ago when the Novice class was piled full of Open competitors. The class was 18 horses strong, all trying to qualify and only 3 of the 18 were proper novices. only 2 of the 18 where aged 4 the rest where all 7 and over, who then went directly to the Open class.
how is that fair on any proper novice pony? Personally i think that some form of overlap should be allowed, to compete in both the novice and open but only for a max of season and then after that seasons, only be allowed to compete in opens.
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Post by kubwa on May 11, 2007 8:57:34 GMT
The class was 18 horses strong, all trying to qualify and only 3 of the 18 were proper novices. only 2 of the 18 where aged 4 the rest where all 7 and over, who then went directly to the Open class. But what about older novices? I'm riding a 6 year old & 10 year old this season, both of whom I broke in January? The 10 year old is a stallion who was used at stud until last autumn. The other has already qualified Pcton so when she's a bit more ready, she will do some opens too-why not, but she's a true novice in most peoples eyes surely?
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Post by Guestless on May 11, 2007 9:16:46 GMT
But what about older novices? I'm riding a 6 year old & 10 year old this season, both of whom I broke in January? The 10 year old is a stallion who was used at stud until last autumn. The other has already qualified Pcton so when she's a bit more ready, she will do some opens too-why not, but she's a true novice in most peoples eyes surely? Drumburgh Emma was 12 when she won the Picton final so there's a precedent for older novices doing well.
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Buddy
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by Buddy on May 11, 2007 9:23:27 GMT
I believe that novice classes should not be restricted by age. If people are still novices, they should still be able to compete as what else would they do? Not everyone has the ability to get their ponies from novice to opens some people do it just for fun and should be allowed to compete as long as they are in the rules. Also as said earlier some stallions and broodmares come out when the have finished their stud duties. However I do feel that a class for 4, 5 and 6 year olds is an excellent idea where people can take their youngsters and be judged accordingly as some youngsters are not as mature as older ponies and this may go some way in stopping people overfeeding their youngsters. All they need would be a sponsor - anyone volunteeting.?
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Post by kubwa on May 11, 2007 9:34:48 GMT
However I do feel that a class for 4, 5 and 6 year olds is an excellent idea where people can take their youngsters and be judged accordingly as some youngsters are not as mature as older ponies and this may go some way in stopping people overfeeding their youngsters. All they need would be a sponsor - anyone volunteeting.? What a fab idea! :PCorrectness in way of going suitable for novices could also be promoted a bit like the young dressage horse classes! I need to get another job to be able to afford sponsorship though
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Buddy
Junior Member
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Post by Buddy on May 11, 2007 9:36:56 GMT
Also we dont want to be a nanny state. Surely people should be allowed to do what they think is best for their ponies. When our Judge was doing the Pictons, he was a very naughty green boy. He was then put into opens where Aimee had more control and starting winning them. He was never strong and alway light in the mouth, but people may remember he would have his moments of losing it and for his, Aimee's and other competitors safey he was better with a bit more control. Somehow we could win an open but not a novice. He eventually qualified for the Picton and won the final. He also qualified for Olympia in the same year. No one knows the complete ins and outs of peoples business and many things written on this site are assumptions, opinions and not necessarily accurate facts.
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Buddy
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by Buddy on May 11, 2007 9:39:59 GMT
However I do feel that a class for 4, 5 and 6 year olds is an excellent idea where people can take their youngsters and be judged accordingly as some youngsters are not as mature as older ponies and this may go some way in stopping people overfeeding their youngsters. All they need would be a sponsor - anyone volunteeting.? What a fab idea! :PCorrectness in way of going suitable for novices could also be promoted a bit like the young dressage horse classes! I need to get another job to be able to afford sponsorship though Where do you live we are looking for someone - good salary and plenty of Cava.
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Post by kubwa on May 11, 2007 9:56:12 GMT
[quote author=maryh board=general thread=1178826246 post=1178876399 Where do you live we are looking for someone - good salary and plenty of Cava. [/quote] Way too north I think for you although the cava is very inviting!! Say good luck to Aimee at Windsor!!
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Post by paddywack on May 11, 2007 11:21:30 GMT
Our mare won a Picton qualifier last year, aged 8, she had previously been a brood mare, so although over 4 was a true novice. She did, however, do open classes and did denovice herself ( although would still be one for BSPS). I do not agree with ponies being in novice classes forever, 1 or 2 years max
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Post by snowman on May 11, 2007 12:27:29 GMT
I have a novice out this season - and to be honest he doesnt go like a novice as he is very naturally balanced - and has a very good head on his shoulders. We have done novice and opens and he always stands in the same position. I think it does depend on the judge, the show and the compition - but i dont see the problem doing both open and novice - it educates the pony and you get an idea of where they will stand in the years to come
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Post by dl on May 11, 2007 12:34:02 GMT
i have an 8 yeaR OLd that has only been shown a few times i have been told hes not a novice but he is and he looks novicy in the opens i also have a 14yo thats coming out for his first time ever this year so can i do novice? weve owned him for years and just hacked but my kids can now ride him will we get laughed at or told off for putting him in novice
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Post by ednalad on May 11, 2007 17:25:13 GMT
Maryh.....would love to come and join you for a glass or two/three/four of cava...!! xxxxxxxxxxx!!....you know who i am!!...xxxxxxx
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Buddy
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by Buddy on May 11, 2007 18:20:46 GMT
Maryh.....would love to come and join you for a glass or two/three/four of cava...!! xxxxxxxxxxx!!....you know who i am!!...xxxxxxx Yeah I do and I love you and would love to adopt you, then I wouldnt need a groom.
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