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Post by think again on May 21, 2007 10:12:03 GMT
I feel like I have missed something! I always thought that the handler should hold the lead rein across their body and in the left hand, holding it out slightly so that the judge could see that the pony was going sweetly without too much control from the handler. Now there seems tobe a fashion to hold the pony in the right hand with the rein bunched up and held very close to the bridle - or in one case actually the handlers hand was holding the noseband. These ponies are placed highly so it obviously is no detriment. Is this always the case - did things change over the winter (this was our first show this year) and do people think it is important under some judges and not others?
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sammie not logged in
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Post by sammie not logged in on May 21, 2007 10:17:11 GMT
I have always held the lead rein in my left hand so it shows the pony does not need holding on to!I too noticed this change in lead rein classses but i would wonder why you would need to hold on to the pony so tight!!!!
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Post by Cherrytop & Spicery Stud on May 21, 2007 10:52:02 GMT
I hold it in my Right hand (just feels better) but Loose. not the clearest pic but shows what i mean I do know what you mean there were some very tightly held LR on Saturday and one was holding to noseband.
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woof
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Post by woof on May 21, 2007 10:52:19 GMT
I have witnessed this too several times this season and the leaders were hanging on for grim death and still got top placings, not ponies I would put my lead rein jockey on!!!
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Post by LR JUDGE on May 21, 2007 11:29:41 GMT
It's one of the things that I particularly look for when judging - the rein has to be away from the pony and not held tight - the control,and direction has to come from the rider - the handler is there for emergencies (and to look pretty!!)
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sky
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Post by sky on May 21, 2007 11:39:35 GMT
seems to me they like to pull up hot headed ponies with big jockeys on rather than pulling up ponies which are true lead reins ones which you would put your 3 year old on, in my eyes a lead rein should go round on a loose lead. obiously it is about conformation but to me manners equal conformation.
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Post by Dee Jay on May 21, 2007 11:55:20 GMT
As a "Golden Oldie" who started in LR classes nearly 40 years ago, I was always told that you hold the lead rein in your left hand so that your right hand is free to hold the childs leg in case of emergency. It's a much nicer picture to have the rein away from the pony and not holding it under the ponies chin. We have always worked the ponies at home without a jockey using the voice to learn their show.
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Post by 4fun on May 21, 2007 12:08:33 GMT
I would rather see someone holding the lead rein in their right hand with plenty of room between them and the pony. Those who hold it in their left hand often have a rather hard stick infront of the pony's eye. I totally disagree with holding the bridle and also attaching the lead rein to the bit which you often see for the initial trot but strangely moves to the noseband when standing for the judge.
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Post by unfair on May 21, 2007 13:00:03 GMT
It really annoys me when you see ponies being held so tight. I have a totally genuine pony who goes off the loosest of reins (she'd go without having a lead attached and I ran alongside her) whats most important to me is my childs safety I can have another pony but I cant have another little boy he loves his pony and he can do what he likes with her. I have a friend who is so scared to give the pony a little lead and the little jockey is petrified - what fun is this? Why oh why do judges put hot ponies up?
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abc
Newbie
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Post by abc on May 21, 2007 14:56:39 GMT
This trend started a few years ago and as we had a LR at the time i copied the top producers that regularly won me, IE Julie Templeton and Kate Carter they hold the rein in right hand but never tightly i have always found there was a loop between noseband and leaders hand however if the need arises you could stop the pony much quicker holding the lead this way, and before you say the ponies should be suitable there are novice ponies and county shows that have alsorts of dangerous obstacles along the ringside and NO pony is completely bombproof
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Post by geegee69 on May 21, 2007 21:05:59 GMT
I show in lead rein classes - now when you have a jockey who is also riding in first ridden classes and can control and stop the pony, then of course there is no need for the leader and they are there so the competent child can enter the class! However when you have a 3 yr old child or a tiny tot that bobs around, do you not think there is a slight disadvantage and perhaps I little more discretion and control by the leader is necessary. Even more especially if the pony is a novice and quite young itself. Exhibitors with younger novice jockeys do require more help. Oh how lovely it would be with the jockey assisting the pony during the figure of eight. But then again, the tots have many years ahead of them until they obtain their 9th birthday before the 1st of Jan. So don't knock all the exhibitors especialy the very young!!!
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Post by Dougal on May 21, 2007 21:36:39 GMT
Beware of labelling large, tall children. Judges should always ask the age as some of the tiny ones are far older than the tall ones and have much more experience.
Some of the tiny professional ones have also been known to fib about their age!
The pony should suit the child within the age range and for the work it has to do. Most of the good ponies will carry a complete beginner as well as a more capable kid.
It is pleasing to see these children riding, steering, slowing down and halting ponies for themselves as it shows the ponies haven't been trained as voice command puppets tied up with string.
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Post by Emma Jane on May 21, 2007 21:56:25 GMT
My Daughter in a M & M Class at County had said to her by a well meaning fellow, oh it will be a shame when you are out of the classes next year as your pony is lovley but small, this was a shallow bodied sec a i will attempt to put up a pic, my daughters biological sperm donor !!! is 6 foot 5, she technically had another 2 and a half years on the lead, i like to hold on a long rein, but i have a 4 year old pony and 5 year old sone coming out next year and i will be holding in the left ready to hold foot with right if needed.
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Post by think again on May 22, 2007 7:46:56 GMT
I am fascinated by your replies. I have written to NPS and suggested that they make a ruling on this. We teach our ponies to go by voice i.e give the command 'away' for the pony to go to thr right in the figure of eight and therefore cannot see any need to hold the bridle or near to it all the time, even with a child who cannot really steer or control the pony much. Of course, you need to be able to put your hand on the rein near to the bridle in case of problems but I applaud all those who agree with me that the most important thing is for the pony to be safe and the child to enjoy their first years of showing. If it has to be restrained so strongly as some do how can this be safe and happy?
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Post by to think again on May 22, 2007 8:35:32 GMT
I am fascinated by your replies. I have written to NPS and suggested that they make a ruling on this. We teach our ponies to go by voice i.e give the command 'away' for the pony to go to thr right in the figure of eight and therefore cannot see any need to hold the bridle or near to it all the time, even with a child who cannot really steer or control the pony much. Of course, you need to be able to put your hand on the rein near to the bridle in case of problems but I applaud all those who agree with me that the most important thing is for the pony to be safe and the child to enjoy their first years of showing. If it has to be restrained so strongly as some do how can this be safe and happy? Get in the real world "think again" these are ponies not sheep dogs, I have never heard such a load of utter rubbish, it should not matter what hand the rein is held in, it is about the pony being mannerly at all times and the jockey being safe and happy. It is unfortunate many shows don't consider these little tots when their classes are scheduled along side the section D stallions in hand, or the fair, vintage engines, bouncy castles the list could go on, these ponies are animals and the ones that are little saints at home can turn into the devil at shows, in my opinion it is the less experienced people who then experience the difficulties in the ring when they do not take into consideration all the additional hazards being thrown at them, and do not give these ponies enough work to ensure the edge has been taken off them, what I have witnessed already this year is young jockeys not holding the saddle ( a previous thread on this site, which also irritated me when all the do gooders were against children holding the saddle) hanging onto the ponies back teeth while trying to rise to trot is not acceptable and not many ponies will tolerate this for long, consequently the pony evades against this and the whole show looks a mess, don't go in the ring until your jockey can at least rise to trot has always been my opinion. l would like to ask "think again" what success have you had county level or placings at RIHS or HOYS Sorry everyone for the rant but needed to get it off my chest.
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Post by geegee69 on May 22, 2007 20:33:10 GMT
I totally agree with the above!! Well said!! Some people need to be in the real world, not cloud cuckoo!!!
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Post by think again on May 23, 2007 12:54:17 GMT
Don't you just love the way people come on this site as a guest when they want to slag other people off! Actually guest, we have had ponies placed all all major shows including HOYS etc. etc. In some cases we have even won the overall supreme!! So actually I do live in the real world and I value the health and safety of any child riding one of my ponies whether owned and produced by me or whether it is one I have sold on. I have been showing for fifty years and do not need to justify my opinion to anyone my results speak for themselves. I wonder if this guest is someone who cannot control their pony without it being anchored,possibly? It is usually those who shout the loudest who have something to prove!
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Post by sorry on May 24, 2007 9:57:47 GMT
My Daughter in a M & M Class at County had said to her by a well meaning fellow, oh it will be a shame when you are out of the classes next year as your pony is lovley but small, this was a shallow bodied sec a i will attempt to put up a pic, my daughters biological sperm donor !!! is 6 foot 5, she technically had another 2 and a half years on the lead, i like to hold on a long rein, but i have a 4 year old pony and 5 year old sone coming out next year and i will be holding in the left ready to hold foot with right if needed. I think if my jockey was that big I'd be encouraging her to go in first riddens & probably opens too!
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Post by Cherrytop & Spicery Stud on May 24, 2007 10:00:49 GMT
I think if my jockey was that big I'd be encouraging her to go in first riddens & probably opens too! So you would force a child who was 7 to ride in FR or Even Open classes even is they were not ready or capable to do so? ?
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Post by flygirl2 on May 24, 2007 10:12:47 GMT
hi i had the same probs with my daughter shes now 8 doing FR but still able to do LR. When she was six we were still far bigger than all the other lead reins but half the time her friends doing it were older than her but smaller. Some judges dont even bother asking age just go on size at the time she wasnt able to do FR let alone an open class, but we felt her size was really letting her down as unfortunately she didnt have the small cute factor! So hence when she got to seven we went on to FR, i think you have to go on the individual child
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Post by Emma Jane on May 24, 2007 11:50:19 GMT
HAHAHA yes but when the pony is a lead rein pony and not a off the lead rein pony, off the lead she napped and pulled her head down and daughter want confident enough, she would have happily rode my 15.3hh shire x on her own !!
She was a pretty Attractive very good for type pony but not a First Ridden yet a saint on the lead.
And when sold she was sold as a LR with a view to going off the lead with a competant rider.
My now 3 y o pony who is just being "played with" hate the term broken, is more confident off the lead with my young son who is nearly 5, we will play on the lead next year but he has a much more sane brain than the mare has even when he is 3.
Not the childs fault she is taller than alot of children, so why if she well within the age group shouldnt she have continued ?
Thats a little preduice towards taller children, i mean ive seen plenty of tubby children out there on ponies ( not meaning it nastily) but surley a taller child would be lighter than a shorter tubbier one ??
Think next time i mate i will hire a stud dwarf to make sure i have small jockies !!! DOH ( No offence to dwarfs but we not all 5 foot 1 and a bit !) im 5 foot 7 x 6 foot 4 she was never going to be tiny but why couldnt she do LR ?
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Post by justjay on May 24, 2007 11:58:50 GMT
I only judge unaff but when the child comes out - whether L/R or first ridden I always have a little chat - I ask them how old theyare - and how old their pony is - NOT because I will penalise the older ones or anything but it helps put them at their ease, and also helps with the final judgement (in my mind anyway!) I also have to say that I am a very popular judge locally because of this - both with organisers and parents
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Post by think ahain on May 24, 2007 13:30:53 GMT
Can you tell us justjay - with your judges hat on, how you like to see the lead rein held? Would you penalise a pony who you felt was being held too tightly? Do any other judges want to say what they think about this? I am really interested becasue I feel that a lead rein pony should be a safe first pony and feel uncomfortable about the fact that ponies do seem to be 'allowed' to be less safe/ quiet these days.
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Post by 4fun on May 24, 2007 17:55:45 GMT
I really don't know why judges ask children how old they are as 'professional' jockeys often lie about their age and the age of their pony. I agree judges should talk to the child when the pony is stood for them, but knowing the age of the child and pony shouldn't come into the judging of it.
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Post by sorry on May 24, 2007 18:38:35 GMT
I have to agree with 4fun. You have to judge what is presented before you on the day. You wouldn't ask a rider in an open class how long they have been riding would you?
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judge
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Post by judge on May 24, 2007 19:05:51 GMT
As a judge i like to see a lead rein carrying the child safely which means the handler NOT holding on to the pony so tight even a novice should still be safe enough that i would want to put my own child on.
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woof
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Post by woof on May 24, 2007 20:27:08 GMT
I agree 'judge' , they should be looked at to see if they are safe to do the job and would you put your child on it. I think the problem is even worse in SHP, there are very few that would actually take a child hunting on the LR!!!
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Post by geegee69 on May 24, 2007 20:55:11 GMT
Alot of judges like to see the ponies really moving forward in their show! Now do we have the safety factor of the steady neddy or a pony striding out in there show.
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Post by guess who on May 25, 2007 10:08:18 GMT
I am judging a HOYS LR/FR qualifier somewhere this year, something I am really looking forward to and will hopefully have a lot of entries. I am lucky enough to know my co-judge very well and we are thankfully in accord with our opinions. A safe mannerly pony is top of our list, type and good conformation complete the picture - no turbo-charged tanks for us ! Neither of us is blind and will be looking for the usual tricks employed to disguise a puller.
I judged at a very large show several years and had one of the nicest lead rein ponies I have ever had the pleasure of judging (which I had never seen before) mini champion without hesitation. The overall ridden championship was in the evening with all the attendant loud music, clapping and cheering etc. This little pony stood like a rock throughout and did a foot perfect show, whilst a lot of the other ponies and horses fidgetted and/or worse, a 101% 'lead-rein' pony. I felt it deserved to be Supreme Champion, one of the other judges said "don't you think it's feet are a little bit boxy to make it overall champion?" - I smiled sweetly and stuck to my guns, whilst thinking 'what planet are you on - I couldn't care if it's hooves were cloven !'
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woof
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Post by woof on May 25, 2007 11:16:45 GMT
'guess who' that is so lovely, that is what a true LR pony should be about.
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