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Post by busybusy on Jun 4, 2007 14:49:04 GMT
At Midland Counties the pony that won the mid height RIHS WHP M&M qualifier had the card taken off them and passed to the second place pony. I understand that this was because the winning jockey did not have the pony's owners card in her pocket (although she did have her own). I understand that this is not the first time this has happened this season - and have been informed that it even happened in an Olympia qualifier last year
The owner/jockey of the second placed pony was certainly not happy about gaining her qualification in such a manner, but all parties (including winning jockey) conducted themselves admirably.
Surely the time has come when the NPS can run their prestige qualifiers (ie RIHS WHP and Olympia) along similar lines to BSPS/BSHA and SHGB and only allow NPS registered ponies belonging to NPS members to compete. Any pony/owner not fully registered PRIOR to the competition taking place would not be able to qualify. At the end of the day, they could have anyone's card in their pocket!! Is this competiton a test for good jumping, conformation, breed type and manners.......or an adminastrative test?
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Post by NPS FAN on Jun 4, 2007 15:04:28 GMT
That must be awful, to win and then not qualify.
How does the judge know that the card produced was not the owners? unless they asked the jockey? in which case cant you just lie and say that the card produced was in fact the owners, who can prove other wise??? ( sorry if that does not make sense?)
It used to be a rule that only NPS members could compete in these classes...as we had the competition cards which had to be produced before we entered the ring. Upon winning the card then had to be signed in the ring...........at an Olympia qualifer last year a card was not signed in the ring and the qualification became null and void!!!!
I think we should show our NPS cards before entering the ring is a good way of checking.
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Post by busybusy on Jun 4, 2007 15:11:47 GMT
I believe the owner was the jockey's grandmother and she had the card....and was not at the show! I suppose they could have got a card from anyone and taken it in the ring? My point is that in these digitalised, databased days such important matters should not come down to producing a small piece of cardboard at a certain time. It isn't as if there was any doubt that they were fully paid up members. By the way I have no connection with the family concerned - I just find this system hard to comprehend!
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Post by Guestless on Jun 4, 2007 15:13:09 GMT
What a shame.
TBH, I think most winners of qualifiers should have a certain timescale to become a member, but perhaps at an increased fee which would still encourage people to join in advance. I think showing is elitist enough, and it costs far too much money IMO to go after all the major qualifiers. The entry fees and travelling is enough, but all these memberships and dual/triple registrations of ponies is IMO excessive.
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Post by NPS FAN on Jun 4, 2007 15:17:53 GMT
Thats one thing I really like about the NPS as opposed to Puk and BSPS, is that you dont have to pay a registration fee for the ponies you want to compete.
It makes such a huge difference when you are out showing every weekend, and add up entry fees, travelling costs etc etc
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Post by Gee Gee on Jun 4, 2007 15:35:36 GMT
I was there yesterday and was appalled. The only good thing to come out of this was the impeccable behaviour of both the child who had the qualifying rosette taken off her in the ring in full view of everyone and the person who then received the rosettewho was obvioulsy distressed.
Come on NPS - its the 21st century - use a database to tell you whether a winner is a member or not.
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Post by why on Jun 4, 2007 16:21:04 GMT
Why are you blameing the NPS surely it is the riders or owners fault. She didnt have the correct card, end of story.
This is not the NPS's fault.
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Post by Guestless on Jun 4, 2007 16:25:19 GMT
Thats one thing I really like about the NPS as opposed to Puk and BSPS, is that you dont have to pay a registration fee for the ponies you want to compete. It makes such a huge difference when you are out showing every weekend, and add up entry fees, travelling costs etc etc I couldn't agree more. I have more than one ridden pony and I don't actually mind paying my NPS membership as it is good value. I joined BSPS this year and the social/training side seems to be great, but I haven't registered any of my ponies with them. Not been a member of PUK for a couple of years now.
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Post by MM on Jun 4, 2007 16:32:13 GMT
I had entered two ponies in different section for the ridden nps classes and obviously having a very blonde moment that morning forgot to check that i had the nps cards and it was not until i had gone down to the ring that i had realised. unfortunately i was not allowed to put my ponies in the ring because of this- what a waste of £40.00 but a bit of my own fault too !! It would be nice if the NPS could update themselves a bit, there never seems to be many in the classes too compared to the HOYS so perhaps its all getting too expensive and different rules here there and eveywhere for people to follow. someone did say too borrow someone else's as you only have to flash it- surely there is a loop hole is it not.!!!! the judge did check the champion cards before giving the award thank god.
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mac
Full Member
Posts: 305
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Post by mac on Jun 4, 2007 17:06:22 GMT
It is horrible for everyone when that happens. Happened at Ayr too. The large M&M WHP RIHS qualifier was even allowed to send someone back to their lorry for the card but they didn't have it. Such a shame for the kid and also very uncomfortable for the 2nd to qualify that way. To make things easier, if you ring the NPS they will send you multiple copies of your cards so each of your jockeys can have one in their pocket. I think it's great that only the owner has to register. It's such a rip-off with P(UK) and BSPS where you have to register owner, each pony and each jockey. Then they have the cheek to ask for an extra transfer fee if the pony is already in their database but in someone else's name. Don't start me.....
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Post by FMM nli on Jun 4, 2007 17:14:22 GMT
Last year at Windsor I forgot the card and our connie was not allowed to go into the ring. I ran back to the lorry, but they had already gone into trot and we were not allowed in. This year the same connie won and took the championship. I am really glad, as it half makes up for my mistake last year.
However, in my defence, I only ride cobs and riding horses, and knew little about the requirements of M&Ms. This was the first class that we had needed the card, and we had brought the wrong card to the ring. As someone said earlier, is this to judge the best pony or the people with the best administrative skills.
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Post by armada on Jun 4, 2007 17:47:15 GMT
How does the judge know that the card produced was not the owners? unless they asked the jockey? in which case cant you just lie and say that the card produced was in fact the owners, who can prove other wise??? ( sorry if that does not make sense?)
I suppose that would all come to light when the qualifying card was sent in, they are supposed to write all details of owner, pony name etc on the card including the memb, number on the card produced. I had a situation last week when qualifying for a championship class, that when I checked the card later, only the membership number was on it, no pony name on it (which amazed me as the length of time it took to sign the card, my foal decided to lie down and have a kip he was so bored ;D ;D)! I could then have entered anything in the championship final!!! I suppose its easy for us though, showing only inhand these days, I wear one jacket for everything and dont have to keep swapping cards from jacket to jacket, so am unlikely to forget it, it goes in the pocket at the beginning of the season, and there it stays. Must say it would make sense for them to check before you went in, you cant expect a child to remember stuff like that. If when the collecting ring steward is calling the class, they could just say, 'have your cards ready for checking please' and that would jog even the busiest of minds.
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Post by nappies on Jun 4, 2007 18:24:44 GMT
:'(Come on, would you forget your saddle - or any other vital piece of equipment. CARDS ALWAYS IN POCKETS.
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Post by Cherrytop & Spicery Stud on Jun 4, 2007 18:59:52 GMT
NPS will de duplicate cards if you have more than one pony in the ring
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Post by pulse on Jun 4, 2007 22:04:56 GMT
Nearly died last year at Windsor running back to the lorry to get the cards. The shock was enough to ensure every jockey has a duplicate of the owners card this year. We only found out that this could be done by chance.
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Post by Cant see a problem on Jun 4, 2007 23:43:16 GMT
I don't see what the fuss is. When someone enters a class they enter under the rules for that class, and the rules of any societies and qualifiers that may apply. I'm not an NPS member and I don't do NPS qualifiers, but even I know the owners card must be produced. If someone is entering classes at this level, if I were judging I would expect them to know the basics at least, and remembering relevant paperwork is basic. Imagine from 2nd places point of view. Ok in this instance everyone was well mannered about it, but what if the qualifier had been awarded despite the card missing and 2nd place hadn't been happy about it. The result is then a justifiable complaint, a possible disciplinary for the judge, and after all rules are rules. Personally I think the NPS way is so far the best of the large societies.At least only the owner has to join to show and qualify saving a fortune in society fees and registrations.
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Post by so be it on Jun 5, 2007 6:47:32 GMT
Why are you blameing the NPS surely it is the riders or owners fault. She didnt have the correct card, end of story. This is not the NPS's fault. completely agree at the end of the day she knew what class she was entered in and going into, you get yourself sorted before you go to the show on what you need to take. well done to the second for being organised and qualifying.
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Post by rihs on Jun 5, 2007 9:16:34 GMT
does anyone know who did qualify at midland counties for the topspec in the end, also the small and large height?
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Post by solitaire on Jun 5, 2007 18:18:26 GMT
As someone who stewards on a regular basis it constantly amazes me how few people actually know if they have qualified for a class let alone manage to have the correct card in the ring with them - why pay all the entry fees etc and then forget the vital item you need like someone else said you would not go in the ring without your saddle or bridle would you?
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Post by faberge on Jun 6, 2007 11:16:22 GMT
One reason why so many people like NPS is the fact the ponies, UncleTom Cobley and all, do not have to be registered! As already stated, you would not forget your saddle would you? (saying that, I forgt jacket once!!) When NPS had a qualification card system, many did not like that....you cannot please all of the people all of the time
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