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Post by busybusy on Jun 5, 2007 12:01:54 GMT
On several occasions this season I have witnessed ponies who do not trot up in their in hand show then be allowed a second (and on one occasion, a third!!) "go" with either the steward or whoever was stripping the pony chasing it to make it move on. In at least 2 instances these ponies have gone on to win the class.
On one occasion the pony even had its ears flat back and was threateneing to kick out at the chaser (the steward)...then came from 4th to win, despite the top pulled pony going beautifully and doing a nice trot up!
My question is how does a poor trot up affect the marks (as you have already given a manners mark, I assume this cannot be altered), and what guidance are you given to cover these eventualities? The classes were bsps SHP classes - RIHS qualifiers.
Thank you.
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Post by julie on Jun 5, 2007 13:17:47 GMT
i was stewarding for a very well known judge (albeit at a local show) and was told that if it didnt run up with the handler I was under no circumstances to "help" - so I am very interested in the replies you might have to this!
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Post by Guestless on Jun 5, 2007 13:49:03 GMT
i was stewarding for a very well known judge (albeit at a local show) and was told that if it didnt run up with the handler I was under no circumstances to "help" - so I am very interested in the replies you might have to this! Definitely. As a steward, perhaps with the exception of a foal or yearling, I would never help entrants run a pony out......apart from the obvious "outside assistance", you would probably get the blame if something went wrong.
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Post by pixie on Jun 5, 2007 15:10:27 GMT
I can agree to a certain extent with your points, but surely the actual walkaway or trot back is only a small percentage of the final result, as the pony has already been assessed conformation wise when it was stood up, and obviously wasn't lame when doing the ridden show. I guess I wouldn't like to be a judge! as it is up to them just how important the run up is, but I agree there shouldn't be any outside assistance
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Post by abe on Jun 5, 2007 15:52:09 GMT
I would think it would go down for poor manners! My young pony is a nightmare to trot up-not that she wont go, but she'll whizz off in any direction and I have very little say in this matter! She is also reluctant to turn around before she'll trot back and prefers to try and canter in the opposite direction! Sometimes we manage to hold it together and she'll trot back, albiet trying to go sideways into me all along but when she hasn't done a correct trot back, we have always been marked down for this; quite rightly in my opinion. In a workers recently she was on equal marks with another pony, the other pony did a wrong leg and ours was naughty in her strip and the judge prefered to put the wrong leg up before us. I don't really mind as I understand that she'll be marked down until she can be a good girl!!! I guess ultimately it depends how much the judge is placing their overall judgement on manners, rather than conformation!!!
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steve
Junior Member
Posts: 157
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Post by steve on Jun 5, 2007 16:49:19 GMT
What we should remember that the conformation judge is judging the pony’s conformation and not its manners. I'm not saying manners dont come into it and there are some judges that would possibly down mark a pony for not doing a nice walk away and trot back. If a pony chucks itself around that much that the judge cannot see its movement by all means down mark it. If however it is just a bit untidy due to being hyped up or not concentrating properly etc and still ends up doing the necessary walk away and trot back surely that is enough to judge it’s conformation. I recall once many years ago while going to do the conformation part of the show our highland while walking past the line received a kick from another pony in the line. The lad stood for the judge but was unsure and understandably upset about walking away and trotting back along the line of pony’s rear ends because of the incident. He did eventually do his bit although not as good or as decisive as usual. The judge in question never down marked him for the class and he went on to win it with the highest conformation mark. One or two competitors thought he should have been down marked on the in hand as he obviously messed. The judge must have thought other wise.
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Post by yes but on Jun 5, 2007 17:37:57 GMT
Yes but without troting the judge cant see how the pony moves, therefore should not really give it any marks for its trot imo. i would however rather a pony that was naughty in its inhand be above me rather than a pony that wrong legs it.
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steve
Junior Member
Posts: 157
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Post by steve on Jun 5, 2007 18:15:14 GMT
I agree that a pony should still go through the process of the walk away and trot back to gain full benefit of the marks.
Just saying that a conformation mark can still be decided upon regardless of a smooth walk away and trot back as long as the pony eventually does walk away and trot back as required. What I am saying is I don’t think that a pony should be marked down on conformation just because it is hesitant.
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Post by papahotchie on Jun 5, 2007 18:33:34 GMT
Personally I think that the work should be done at home.....i would accept a level of hesitation / hyper behaviour in a novice class....however once you get to open levels, the pony should be mannerly enough to walk away and trot back well enough for me to see how straight / freely it moves.
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steve
Junior Member
Posts: 157
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Post by steve on Jun 5, 2007 18:53:29 GMT
Personally I think that the work should be done at home.....i would accept a level of hesitation / hyper behaviour in a novice class....however once you get to open levels, the pony should be mannerly enough to walk away and trot back well enough for me to see how straight / freely it moves. Sorry I disagree. You cannot plan for every eventuality at home. Example When Hoys was at wembley one year the conformation was done out side a big temporary marquee on a very windy day. Every time there was a gust the sides where flapping wildly in the wind. Every time this happened any pony doing it’s in hand spooked. That probably made up 50% of each class. Would you have down marked all those ponies that were unfortunate enough to be in the process of the walk away and trot back? I can think of numerous other occasions which I have seen over the years were even the best behaved of ponies have had a moment due to circumstances on the day.
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Post by jedges reply on Jun 5, 2007 23:06:51 GMT
Personally I think that the work should be done at home.....i would accept a level of hesitation / hyper behaviour in a novice class....however once you get to open levels, the pony should be mannerly enough to walk away and trot back well enough for me to see how straight / freely it moves. when judging the conf. section of a class, i clearly ask each child to walk away and trot back, you would'nt believe how many children dont understand this, they walk away and trot back anything up to 15 feet away. This is all down to the parent/producers at home. when you are asked to trot back to the judge it means just that. If 9 out of 10 children do it correctly, why should'nt the 10th pony be penalised. It all comes down to ring craft. A childs shp/sp should have enough manners to do the job properly. I fully understand there are occasions when a pony is spooked by something, I would take this into consideration on the day. If you dont see a pony trot straight back to you then you cannot give a true confirmation mark. Thankyou for reading..
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Post by i agree on Jun 6, 2007 6:48:22 GMT
I agree with most papahotchie totally, I think a pony especially an open pony should behave in a mannerly way and do the appropriate stand, walk away, trot back.
I do agree with Steve also that certain environmental circumstances should come into concideration, as no horse is a robot they are naturally going to become unsettled in tererrential circumstances. So there are specific cases where I think judges can be a little forgiving.
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