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Post by Practice on Jun 7, 2007 20:04:50 GMT
I only speak for myself here but I have never qualified for HOYS on anything but a win. Therefore, I cannot imagine it being an issue. Other than the Royal Welsh or perhaps the Royal, I can't see the qualification going below 3rd although I stand to be corrected if it is a common occurence and just not to me.
I really think that to keep the HOYS qualifiers as such an elite show, it should not be passed down below 3rd. I really don't want it going the same way as Puk and BSPS, where it means very little to qualify. Surely the achievement is in how hard it is to get there??
For many of the Welshie lovers, the Royal Welsh may even be a bigger show than HOYS. They would be gutted not to go.
Having qualified mine for RIHS early on, I too didn't bother doing any more as they tend not to be 'special' shows in my eyes! I certainly wouldnt bother with any HOYS qualifiers that were not County shows.
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Post by Jo Jenkins on Jun 7, 2007 20:29:22 GMT
I think that is the point qualifying should not be made easier by going down the line, BUT if as in hunters for Royal Int it only goes to 2nd place and one or two pros keep running their top top class horses at even the 'smaller' q'ing shows it amounts to: 1. Pot hunting 2. Cynical blocking to keep numbers down at finals 3. Obsession I am not talking of the lovely County Shows but of the small shows that no one would miss going to. And not talking about having to go because of owners pressure. I still do not know what satisfaction they can possibly get out of it and certainly it would cost them more thatn their £ money and what a treadmill of a life for the horses.
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Post by Practice on Jun 7, 2007 20:33:00 GMT
That is well said. The Hunters etc are a different ball game to the Natives. There are few major players in this area and I think Katie Jerram is in H+H more than once this week! She has beautiful horses tho!!
Maybe in the hunters etc it needs looking at!
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Post by scotland on Jun 7, 2007 22:18:45 GMT
I remember watching the Show Cob classes at Great Yorkshire last year and none of them got the ticket, as the top three had already qualified! The BSHA as dropped the ticket to 5th this year, but would you really want to qualify in 5th place Having NEVER qualified for HOYS, I wouldn't want to qualify and be barred from such shows as Great Yorkshire and the likes! Try living in Scotland, we only have one big county show
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mac
Full Member
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Post by mac on Jun 7, 2007 22:58:23 GMT
Royal Highland, Ayr, Perth, Fife, Turriff... Need I go on? OK some of them aren't so big but they are all proper county shows complete with tractors and cows! (and YF bars!)
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Post by scotland on Jun 7, 2007 23:01:15 GMT
Royal Highland, Ayr, Perth, Fife, Turriff... Need I go on? OK some of them aren't so big but they are all proper county shows complete with tractors and cows! (and YF bars!) Aye and only one of them that has an affiliated class, with a PANEL judge for Riding Horses! Thank goodness, I'm making the switch to M&M's ETA - Other than the RHS, only Ayr in Scotland calls themselves a county show!! You should know mac, that I have to show my RH, as a small hunter at all the other shows in Scotland, as all the RH's are hacks and all the Small Hunters are RH's The small hunters are few and far between!
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Post by solitaire on Jun 8, 2007 5:57:17 GMT
Whats to stop competitors entering but not taking the qualifier if they have already qualified - if a rule was brought it to make the qualification nil and void if a competitor took a further qualifier once qualified they would stop doing it i am sure - obviously not going to help if first 3 have qual but would in quite a lot of classes
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Post by overatdaknee on Jun 8, 2007 7:07:35 GMT
In the days when Bucks County was a HOYS show pony qualifier I can remember the top 5 having already qualified and nothing going through. The sp classes have such a huge depth of quality this qualification rule is necessary, I had a ticket in fourth one year with HOYS winners below us. There were 30 ponies in the class so a good result for a green ribbon. If competitors were not allowed to enter qualifiers after qualifying how long before shows ceased to exist due to falling revenue? Even worse- how long before they increased entry fees!
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Post by fmm on Jun 8, 2007 7:28:10 GMT
It is really a bit of a joke that people are complaining that qualified horses and ponies still go to shows. Loads of hunter classes (for example) end up with only 2 or 3 entries towards the end of the season entirely because nearly everyone has qualified.
Have you noticed the hunter, riding horse, hack and cob classes looking half empty at HOYS and RIHS? No. And that is because (if you look at the qualification records), there were only 3 or 4 occasions at the most where no one qualified. I have frequently been 4th and the top three have qualified, but I always qualify eventually as do most people who are usually in the top 5. Why shouldn't the best horses be allowed to compete if they have pre-entered a class or it happens to be a particularly good judge for them?
Most of my sister's horses qualify first time out (lucky her!) but they are all young and need the ring experience to become better show horses.
So when you see some of our qualified horses out and about it is not "obession, pot hunting or cynical blocking" - it is about producing our horses to a level where they are among the best in the country, and this includes giving them the experience they need IN the ring.
I would like to add that my cob (who is experienced and has done 3 seasons showing) has only done two shows since he qualified (Bath and West and Windsor). I had pre-entered 5 other shows and did not go.
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Post by Jo Jenkins on Jun 8, 2007 8:20:32 GMT
ooh err seems to have struck a bit of a chord here!!
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Post by tustus on Jun 8, 2007 8:35:22 GMT
I too believe that horses who've qualified shouldn't be barred from competing in further qualifiers. I compete to have fun and enjoy my horses, not specifically to qualify - however sometimes I'm lucky enough to qualify. After paying entries and looking forward to the bigger shows (which I'd do whether I had a HOYS standard horse or not, just for the enjoyment), it seems a shame to bar people from entering at all.
Entering HC is good in theory, but doesn't this ammount to passing the qualifier down if the HC horse/pony would have been placed above that which qualified had it not been HC?
Could the judges be given some discression about passing qualifiers down the line? Eg qualifiers being given automatically to the first placed pony (if not already qualified) and then passed down the line (to 5th, or even as far as needed) at the judge's discression? To avoid confrontation in the ring, the judge could inform the secretary about whether she is happy for that pony to qualify, with the competitor having to ask the secretary after the class.
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Post by not good enuf on Jun 9, 2007 10:05:47 GMT
If you are fortunate to qualify early, you really would miss some of the fab county shows if you couldn't enter. For example, Three Counties, The Royal, Lincoln County, Cheshire County to name just a few. Many people would enter these irrelevant of whether they are HOYS qualifiers and I for one would hate to miss them just because i had been fortunate enough to qualify. After all, let's get this into perspective. HOYS is only another show! (And I am not saying it's not special as it;s great to go!) There's other classes to enter though, so people could still go to their fave shows. Not necessarily My daughter has wanted to ride at Cheshire County for years, our pony is probably good enough to compete at county level (been placed at county shows before) but isn't HOYS standard, however the only class for them at Cheshire is a HOYS class, now they will probably be last but....
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Post by nikki on Jun 9, 2007 19:25:30 GMT
Could the judges be given some discression about passing qualifiers down the line? Eg qualifiers being given automatically to the first placed pony (if not already qualified) and then passed down the line (to 5th, or even as far as needed) at the judge's discression? To avoid confrontation in the ring, the judge could inform the secretary about whether she is happy for that pony to qualify, with the competitor having to ask the secretary after the class. I personally don't think this is a very workable solution. The judges have to take enough criticism without this sort of pressure. Can you imagine if someone found themself in 4th place and in theory should have qualifed but on going to the Secretary's tent discovered that the Judge had decided they were not of the standard required and therefore had not been awarded the qualifying place. 'All hell broke loose' would probably not do justice to the resulting scenes! No, no, no!
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Post by johnwayne on Jun 10, 2007 9:43:35 GMT
[ Not necessarily My daughter has wanted to ride at Cheshire County for years, our pony is probably good enough to compete at county level (been placed at county shows before) but isn't HOYS standard, however the only class for them at Cheshire is a HOYS class, now they will probably be last but.... [/quote] Yes, I do appreciate that now, and as I said a couple of days ago, in M&Ms and individual breed classes there often are Open, Novice, and qualifiers for the lesser prestigious events to do instead, but not necessarily for non M&Ms. I think we (M&M types) are lucky in that respect.
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Post by mara on Jun 10, 2007 10:11:47 GMT
I thought the NPS M&M & WHP finals you were disqualified if you took a 2nd qualification & it gets passed down as far as necessary.
Not sure about HOYS, RIHS as we don't do those yet.
From our performance yesterday I would say now I've gained both my qualifiers there is still room for improvement & I can now relax for the rest of the summer working on our performance.
If I wasn't allowed to compete in further qualifiers then I would be seriously restricted with what I can do with my pony - I don't think it's fair to do the smaller local shows with him as that to my mind would be more pothunting than competing at a higher level when there's far more chance of good judges & similar standard ponies who could beat us fairly to take the ticket.
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Post by Guestless on Jun 10, 2007 22:30:40 GMT
I thought the NPS M&M & WHP finals you were disqualified if you took a 2nd qualification & it gets passed down as far as necessary. That's the case for the Scottish finals mara, but I'm not sure about the national ones.
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Post by morts on Jun 11, 2007 10:40:19 GMT
ooh err seems to have struck a bit of a chord here!! Struck a nerve more like!
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shsg
Newbie
Posts: 26
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Post by shsg on Jun 11, 2007 20:20:48 GMT
the point of shows like hoys is to show the best the show world has to offer and to stop horses already qualifyed from compeating in qualifyers would just start letting a lot of the crap from the bottom of the line into the show case shows and lets face it if you cant get into a qualifying slot then its prob not good enough or your doing somthing very very wrong!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by godsgift on Jun 11, 2007 21:10:27 GMT
I can understand that if you wanted to qualify for Hoys RIHS etc you may want to enter as many qualifiers as possible (or as you can afford) as to spread your bets. If you are lucky enough to qualify early, you would probably still want to compete in your other qualifiers because 1 you have already entered & paid, 2 it would be good practice. I think that a rule should be intoduced stating that once you have qualified you should still compete but as a non competitor.
I do feel however that people are competing to block others from qualifying.
Hoys & RIHS should reognise this fact as it is most unsporting and surely they are missing out on revenue.
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