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Post by Jo Jenkins on Jun 5, 2007 15:47:03 GMT
Has anyone noticed that there seems to be a fair bit of this going on this season? At best it seems a bit cynical and worse it is greedy surely especially if the animals are ownded by the rider/producer. Pot hunting!!
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Post by abe on Jun 5, 2007 15:58:47 GMT
I'm confused, what do you mean by blocking of qualifying places? Do you mean ponies that have already qualified competing still?
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Post by Jo Jenkins on Jun 5, 2007 16:24:37 GMT
Yes, exactly that. I think it is absolutely fine do do all your fave shows or near ones but some people seem to use it as a tactic. you see especially in the hunters for example top top ones doing just bsps area type shows which seems a bit mean as the supporters of these shows will get dis heartened and not bother soon. I dont know what satisfaction they get out of it either!
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Post by bsps classes on Jun 5, 2007 16:54:33 GMT
YES both 1st and 2nd in my class will not be going to bsps and have stopped the 3rd and the 4th getting the qualificaton, it should be passed down if the top ones are not members of bsps or puk or who ever.
difficult to monitor but it cuts down the entries at the summer champs in the end.
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Post by thats nothing on Jun 5, 2007 17:32:18 GMT
thats nothing. Last year my friend came second in a HOYS qualifer and were really pleased as it was there first one. They were also pleased for the one that won because they were also friends but were very disapointed to find out after the class that they had no intension of going to horse of the year show. Why put the pony in the class then? lol
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Post by not fair on Jun 5, 2007 17:55:51 GMT
i cant remember what year but i was in the hoys A and B class at the royal welsh and the first three had all qualified for HOYS that meant no1 got the ticket that is very spiteful i think once you have qualified for hoys you should not be able to go in the qualifiers its unfair on other people!
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Post by solitaire on Jun 5, 2007 18:11:09 GMT
I agree its very unfair but until a rule is brought in saying once you have qualified you cannot take part in further qualifiers it remains an excellent way to keep the numbers down at the final event
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Post by armada on Jun 5, 2007 18:36:38 GMT
We dont do PUK, so we dont waste time energy and money to enter the classes, having qualified our mare for Malvern, we will be doing our local NPS area show to support it, and to give the foal a bit of experience before then, and also next Sunday a little local show on the grass, so if he has any problems we can hopefully iron them out before area 20, but I'm not going to waste time going 'pot-hunting'. There are some people I see regularly going around picking up the tickets and yet never go to any champs as 'its too far to travel', they might as well do pony club, and local unaffiliated shows for all the good it does them. Personally, we like to get out early, get what we need then kick back a bit and just really make sure the ponies are looking top drawer for when it really counts. I think that some people like to do the qualifiers and pick up the tickets because it sounds good that the pony is such and such quality because it has won the class and got the ticket, but dont really want to test the theory in practice.
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Post by finglands on Jun 5, 2007 19:11:36 GMT
We qualified for HOYS this year early but I am one of those people(daft maybe) that sends off entries early. I entered 3more Hoys classes at different shows but won't do them now we've qualified. There are other classes to do & I agree don't wear the pony out just to prove yourself. But it's saved me a lot of fuel thank god!
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Post by money on Jun 5, 2007 19:18:16 GMT
We qualified for HOYS this year early but I am one of those people(daft maybe) that sends off entries early. I entered 3more Hoys classes at different shows but won't do them now we've qualified. There are other classes to do & I agree don't wear the pony out just to prove yourself. But it's saved me a lot of fuel thank god! If you say a HOYS qualifier costs roughly £30 a shot though perhaps some people don't like the ide of writing of £90!! I do agrree though that it should be past down
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Post by zomfray on Jun 5, 2007 19:23:32 GMT
That does sound incredibly pot-hunty! I think there needs to be a rule that states that once you have qualified, you can't enter any more qualifiers with that pony. Don't agree with passing down the line... where does it end? You could end up with a pony qualifying from 4th place. IMO for a show as prestigious as HOYS only the winner of the class should qualify.
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Post by rachelnjj on Jun 5, 2007 19:26:31 GMT
Yeah but playing Devil's Advocate here... If ponies who have already qualified are still winning these classes then surely then, that is because they are the best ponies in the class (ok so not always the case, but bear with me!) So if these ponies then don't go forward for other qualifiers does it not run the risk of ponies winning and qualifying who prehaps are not good enough and don't deserve to be there? Now i understand this is not always the case and some ponies who do deserve to get there aren't because ponies who already have qualified are still entering and winning. Hope you are still all with me! Its just another way of looking at things!
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Post by zomfray on Jun 5, 2007 19:40:36 GMT
does it not run the risk of ponies winning and qualifying who prehaps are not good enough and don't deserve to be there? Followed that entirely! Perhaps if HOYS qualified like Olympia (ie just the champion) it would cut out the lower half of the class that might end up qualifying if better ponies are unable to enter because they've already qualified. (Eh?! Follow that?!) Although HOYS is a massive show and qualifying is a wonderful achievement, it's not the same prestige as Olympia. (Please nobody jump down my throat, no I haven't qualified my pony for HOYS and nor will I, I'm saying all this as a spectator, and hats off to all who have a go at the biggest classes.)
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Post by nikki on Jun 5, 2007 19:46:19 GMT
That does sound incredibly pot-hunty! I think there needs to be a rule that states that once you have qualified, you can't enter any more qualifiers with that pony. Don't agree with passing down the line... where does it end? You could end up with a pony qualifying from 4th place. IMO for a show as prestigious as HOYS only the winner of the class should qualify. I personally would hate to see a rule stopping those who have qualified from taking part in further qualifiers. Not only would it devalue some classes but if you are good or lucky enough to qualify early then why should you be penalised and also have to forfeit entry money you may have spent on later qualifiers? It doesn't happen that often that the first 3 or 5 have qualified and if someone qualifies ahead of you but doesn't intend to go to the championship/RIHS etc, well fortunately for all of us it is a free world. I personally believe that you can over-legislate in the showing world and this would be one rule too many.
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Post by Blocked out on Jun 5, 2007 21:45:10 GMT
Maybe the restriction rule needs removing completely so that the qualification goes down the line to the pony which hasn't a ticket? This would stop the "blocking" and would provide more people with the thrill of going to HOYS. What the heck if it isn't the best pony as the same amount of money will have been spent in registering, preparing and travelling it. Come on BSPS be seen to be fair.
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mac
Full Member
Posts: 305
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Post by mac on Jun 5, 2007 21:57:15 GMT
If you are lucky enough to qualify early, why should you drop out of the others especially if you have already paid (lots) to enter. In the case of WHP the only time you get to jump round the full-up courses is at the qualifiers. Why should you have to miss this important extra experience? I agree the qualification should go further down the line, but there has to be a limit. Each judge wants the ponies they pick to go through to be of a decent standard.
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Post by clobo121082 on Jun 6, 2007 9:06:30 GMT
I thought that qualifiers went down to 5th in hoys? is this different in m&ms then. If you think blocking is bad in ponies you should try horses. Realistically i guess there isnt a great answer as i dont think that qualifications shld be missed out and no-one qualified but then they shldnt really go lower than 6th. BSPS Champs is always a dodgy one as people often put there ponies in it for a warm up x
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Post by NOTALWAYS on Jun 6, 2007 11:07:52 GMT
On a lighter note, we were at a show recently and a rider who won and qualified for the Picton final, did not take the ticket as she did not want to show the pony at the Champs this year..very decent of her I thought
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Post by Practice on Jun 6, 2007 20:18:08 GMT
If you are fortunate to qualify early, you really would miss some of the fab county shows if you couldn't enter. For example, Three Counties, The Royal, Lincoln County, Cheshire County to name just a few.
Many people would enter these irrelevant of whether they are HOYS qualifiers and I for one would hate to miss them just because i had been fortunate enough to qualify. After all, let's get this into perspective. HOYS is only another show! (And I am not saying it's not special as it;s great to go!)
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Post by johnwayne on Jun 6, 2007 20:54:46 GMT
If you are fortunate to qualify early, you really would miss some of the fab county shows if you couldn't enter. For example, Three Counties, The Royal, Lincoln County, Cheshire County to name just a few. Many people would enter these irrelevant of whether they are HOYS qualifiers and I for one would hate to miss them just because i had been fortunate enough to qualify. After all, let's get this into perspective. HOYS is only another show! (And I am not saying it's not special as it;s great to go!) There's other classes to enter though, so people could still go to their fave shows. I agree that once you've qualified, you have no reason to be in other qualifier classes. You've achieved your goal already. . . just my opinion.
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Post by Practice on Jun 6, 2007 21:02:59 GMT
I can't think what else I could enter my boy for!
He might look interesting going round a Riding Horse class though (would a Fell do well??) He can't jump the big HOYS fences and I don't know what else I might do.
Plus- you have generally entered in April anyway before you have attempted any qualifiers! Therefore unless you cover all angles (and I for one can't afford to do so), then it's a bit tricky!
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whp
Newbie
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Post by whp on Jun 6, 2007 21:05:43 GMT
m&m's the qualifier is passed down to 3rd,i do agree too,once you've qualified what have you got to prove?you cant better yourself.if already entered for further show,having qualified early,why not phone up show office and ask to go h/c,then you are giving other competitiors a chance to get to the finals.
i would like to go someday!
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Post by mara on Jun 6, 2007 22:30:20 GMT
There's no easy answer & I can understand some people will do it to a) increase their chances at the finals but also b) get in some ring practice if they're a new combination etc.
I don't see why someone who qualifies early on in the year should then be unable to show anywhere else other than HC personally & it's not always possible to show in another class, equally, if someone then enters a hunter into a riding horse class they get criticised.
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Post by Wales NLI on Jun 7, 2007 7:54:18 GMT
I qualified early for the RIHS this year and have not done anymore qualifiers as to save the pony,money!
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Post by johnwayne on Jun 7, 2007 8:21:42 GMT
I can't think what else I could enter my boy for! He might look interesting going round a Riding Horse class though (would a Fell do well??) He can't jump the big HOYS fences and I don't know what else I might do. Plus- you have generally entered in April anyway before you have attempted any qualifiers! Therefore unless you cover all angles (and I for one can't afford to do so), then it's a bit tricky! You're right, of course. I was just thinking of Open classes, which aren't the qualifiers. You get these in M&Ms, plus often the individual breed class, but not for lots of other types. But.... you could always leave sending your entry till nearer the closing date. Not meaning you personally (ie. def not 'having a go'), but then money wouldn't be wasted. As a point of interest, how many of any one qualifiers (how many HOYS, how many RIHS etc.)would someone enter? What is normal? Edited for Oldie
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Post by johnwayne on Jun 7, 2007 8:26:57 GMT
That's weird, all of my post up there was in quotes, but half of it was mine, not 'Practice's'. No time to sort it, as must scoot off to work!
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Post by bopper on Jun 7, 2007 8:41:50 GMT
I agree with practice, it would be such a shame to miss out on such great shows. HOYS tickets are not the only reason for entering. I believe there is still prestige or fun!! winning a county show.
It would be unfair to stop ponies entering particularly the workers, they need the experience of jumping the bigger more difficult courses.
How many people have actually qualified below a 1st place. Granted I am looking at M&M's but there cant be many shows where nobody qualifies.
I do however think it is terrible if someone takes the qualification when they have no intention of going. Can you pass HOYS ticketes down the line? I remember being able to pass tickets down the line at BSPS level years ago but not sure if you can pass on HOYS tickets?
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Post by not logged in on Jun 7, 2007 10:25:49 GMT
We are in a very fortunate and unexpected position having got our RIHS & HoYs qualifications and this question of which shows to do has been raised in our house. We have decided to still do the big shows - particularly those where we have paid for stabling and booked time off work/school - that we have pre entered as we show because we enjoy it and not because going to HoYs is the be all and end all (though utterly delighted to be going!!).
In BSPS classes it is quite common for qualification to pass down but classes where no one actually qualifies must be very rare!!
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Post by ponies4me on Jun 7, 2007 10:46:27 GMT
why cant it be passed down the line to say 6th place but only to 6th place as long as there are more than say 10 in the class. that way, anyone with a really naf pony who has entered a class and there are only 6 forward would not get the qualification underservedly if you know what i mean
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Post by annoyed on Jun 7, 2007 14:13:52 GMT
ok just a quick question those saying they think it would be unfair for not to let those already qualified for hoys to go in another hoys qualifier would you change your mind and be very angry if the first three had qualified and you were stood in 4th place and did not get the ticket i would be extremely annoyed!
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