border collie advice

[foster]

Some of you may already know that i lost my dog Jess a few weeks ago at the age of 14
this was a very sad time and the house felt empty so we decided we needed a new family friend, so my other half came home from the dogs home with a nine week old border collie, we called her Poppy.
Poppy has been brilliant to have around the house and plays well with the children........BUT....... totally changes when food is around! she growls when she is eating her food (if you attempt to stroke her) and last night she stole a sweet and when my daughter (age 13) went to take it off her she snapped at her.
i really don't know what to do??? we really want to keep her but I'm worried this could get worse!!!
has anyone any advice on border collies xx

[xxshowponyxx]

It happens a lot when puppies are left to fend for themselves and there is sometimes (in their opinion!) not enough food to go around - it becomes survival of the fittest!!!

Your OH obviously chose quite a dominant puppy, which is not unusual because they are the ones who rush up to new people and jump all over them rather than wait at the back to assess the situation!

I would say at nine weeks you have all the time in the world to mould her into you and your ways, and now you know what you are dealing with you can take the right steps to establish the family pecking order.

[Deleted]

my hubby trains them for working with sheep, I don't class them as a pet, they are working dogs - the true Border collies anyway, can't speak for a cross bred, but usually they just live for work, we often have them sent because people are complaining, they are rounding everything up! children, hens, cats. Does anyone have one that is just a pet?

[rightrein92]

my border collie also works and is iffy about his food but to be fair to him so he should be he spends hours in the feilds rounding up horses sheep (the ducks) :S and well anything that he can if i worked that hard all day and someone tried to take my food off me at the end of a long day id be miffed too ..........

[xxshowponyxx]

I have had them as both working dogs and pets cayberry.

I think when they are pets they need to have mental as well as physical exercise, and the first command I teach my collie pups is 'settle' i.e go and make yourself comfortable and settle down!!

My (ex) OH never forgave me for the time he turned up at 'the nationals' (sheepdog trials) with his best working dog washed sparkling white and brushed!!!!

[foster]

The dogs home has given us another four weeks trial with her, any tips on the feeding side would be most helpful. should i be putting her food down and just leave her to eat it or should i put her food down making her wait at stroke her etc??
she will never be a working dog whilst with us but is able to come to the stables daily and go for long walks etc .
thanks for the advice so far x

[xxshowponyxx]

Is she your only dog livtom??

My dogs are now free fed with Eukanuba - i.e there is food down all the time. If she is worried about being hungry it may be a simple as that!

If it is a dominanace thing you should only put her food down once you have all had your meals (probabaly after breakfast and dinner??) and dont 'esculate' her importance in other ways - ie have her on your furniture or bed, let her go through doors first etc.

You have do decide how much of a problem it is to you and your family, If it is just a 'food' thing it may be that you could live with it - but if it is dominance over food and other things and she is constantly challenging to be 'top dog' it may not be acceptable with children in the house.

Modified to add - I realised once I had posted it I hadnt actually answered your question!!!

Make her sit and wait for her food before you put it down - and once its on the floor dont let her dive in. (With a little pup you can just put your leg/foot in the way until she understands what you want) Let her eat it with a command like 'okay'. To start with I would leave her to eat it -as you dont want to get bitten, but as she gets more obedient you could touch/stroke her and eventually move on to lifting her food up before she has finished and making her wait again.

You will make much better progress by really praising the good behaviour and turning a blind eye to the undesirable stuff with a puppy as I have found collies usually like to please and will want to repeat the actions that get them fuss/praise!

[Milliesmum]

Little things can make a huge difference, she has to know that you are 'top dog' and she is down the pecking order. The food suggestion is good, i.e. she gets her food AFTER you have eaten, don't give titbits and only use treats as a traning reward. Make her wait to go through a doorway until after you have gone through, I'd also recommend a crate that is 'her' space away from the children, just leave the door open and you'll find she'll go in there of her own accord when she needs time out.

Once she's had her jabs, puppy socialisation and training classes will be a big help.

[foster]

yes she is our only dog, i my mind i am thinking that if she is only like this when she has her own food then we can live with that and my children are old enough to know that she needs her own space when she is eating her meals, but if she carries on being like this when the children have snacks and sweets then i really would have to look at returning her back to the dogs home for rehoming in a house with no children.
We are very attached to her already and its really playing with my heart x

[sarahp]

We've had two, both house dogs and family pets but intended to work sheep as well - I say intended because the second one was a driving rather than fetching dog who would have required lots of training to fetch which never got done. But both rather submissive sorts as were chosen to be by working collie people who knew all the proper tests to do on puppies. Foodwise we always started by making them wait to eat when their food was put down, when they had learned sit they had to sit until released to eat it. It is, as said above, a question of them learning their place in the family pecking order - which should be at the bottom below ANY humans. I'd recommend puppy training classes as soon as she is old enough to go; a good instructor who could see you all working with the dog, and of course Poppy herself, should be able to give you good advice. Haven't the dogs home tried to help you settle together? I'm no expert, but I'm sure there are techniques to help, I seem to remember that the family should always eat first, before the dog, for one, and go through doors first too with Poppy following behind. Not allowed on beds or chairs either. There must be dog training books around, or articles on the internet? We took our rescue saluki to puppy training, a great source of amusement to both the trainer and the other participents, but I seem to remember the first thing we did was teach them to settle on a blanket and stay there quietly, followed before long by "wait" before they were allowed to get out of a car, or into one for that matter, go through a door, eat their food......

I wouldn't have a pure collie as a pet - we bred one litter from the first bit*h as she was a fantastic worker and we wanted a daughter but I wouldn't let any go to non-working homes - three went to work sheep, one to do obedience and the last to an army PE instructor who intended to take it on all the long treks or whatever they do with the soldiers, I thought that would keep it amused! We do currently have a half collie, her dam was found by a travellers' saluki lurcher, who is the most wonderful dog with the intelligence and obedience of the collie but without the hyper-energy bit, she'll kip on the sofa all day like a sighthound.

[amumwithapony]

I've just had this (the food obsession not the snapping though) with our new whippet puppy (6 months old, so older than yours) who had also previously lived in kennels before coming to us.

I think she was so un used to the smell of human food, rather than dog food, and used to having to 'fight' for her share, she was driving herself daft when we were eating or even if I was cooking.

I actually feed her as I start cooking our tea. That way when (if) she starts making a nuisance of herself I know its not because she is starving. I would imagine that if you were hungry, really hungry and you could see your 'humans' eating something that smelled so lovely and nice and not being allowed any as a puppy in particular that must be quite difficult. Like taking a child in a sweet shop and saying 'no' all the way around!

I also leave her dried dog food down all day so she can pick at that so food doesn't seem as much as a worry. I also give her a meat feed at night so she has something nice, and like Sarahp I give her any appropriate left overs. However that is when WE have finished eating and the plates are left on the side for 10 minutes so she isn't hovering around waiting for it.

If she has just come from her litter mates it may be that she, like my dog has had to 'fight for her share' and is just carrying this on now. If she does it again I would be tempted to reprimand her TBH, with a loud 'NO' and maybe take it off her. Again like people have said she needs to understand that she is not the boss.

Collies are big powerful dogs when fully grown and I would want this nipping in the bud now. I'd get your kids to be a bit more understanding about eating in front of her for now. Although I can now trust my pup to not try and pinch from me or OH now, I wouldn't trust her not to take advantage of my daughter so when my daughter is eating her breakfast in the living room, the pup is in with me. She will now lay quietly in her bed whilst I'm cooking or whilst we are sat down at the table but she was a terrible pest at first. But we've only had her 2 and a half weeks and the change in her attitude to food is amazing TBH.

I wouldn't leave a roast chicken in the same room as her unattended though. Shes still a terrible theif when she thinks no one is looking. And treats my kitchen bin like a lucky dip

[sarahp]

A couple of times I've seen something I'm really not happy with. Humans eat their meal, then the plates are put down on the floor for the dog to lick off before being put in the dishwasher. Apart from the yuk aspect what happens is that dog hangs around licking its chops with anticipation all the time you are eating.

I must admit I hadn't thought of the kennel aspect but it makes sense - our rescue saluki (not the half collie, we've had her since she was 7 weeks old) was a dreadful thief when we first got him - and as it was no problem for him to take one bound and land with all four feet on the kitchen worktop, not just the fronts, we had to be very careful. He is much better now though although not 100% trustworthy, he does know that food for him is only found in his bowl on the floor, anything else is out of bounds.

Collies are so intelligent and usually want to be please so I'm sure if you go about it the right way she will be fine - lots of good advice from others I hadn't seen cross posted with mine above! And I'd agree, no titbits or being fed from the hand! For training purposes, maybe playing with a toy as a reward would be a good idea instead? It depends on the dog if this will float her boat. Any comment from those with more dog experience than I have?

[foster]

Thanks everyone, poppy has improved lots over the past couple of days and sits queitly waiting for her food and when i put it down she will wait till i say its ok to eat it and then half way through i can ask her to sit back down and wait again. I feel that soon i will be able to feed her and she will know that it is her food and none of us are a threat to her.
She still isnt brill if the children come near her when eating and will growl. x

[bow1607]

The first thing that comes to mind is a tip I saw on "its me or the dog" where they prepared the dogs food in its bowl then pretended to eat some, passed it around the family to "eat" some then finally gave it to the dog.
Very similar to how the dominant male would behave in the pack, he gets first choice , then leaves the pickings to the less dominant, it may help your dog realise that you and your family are higher in the pecking order!
Good luck

[sarahp]

Glad to hear she's improving, it's still pretty early days so far.

[wiccaweys]

If you need some breed specific advice, feel free to give us a call. Its what we do every day.
Wiccaweys Rescued Border Collies & Working Sheepdogs
Tel: [phone]
www.wiccaweys.co.uk

[foster]

I have just been on your site wiccaweys and found some really interesting information

[Sam]

Mine was exactly the same bought a greyhound x collie pup @8 weeks old 2 months a go as lost my collie Fern. my little boy is 18 months old and she was quite nippy to him and growling at food time but now they are the best of friends and wear each other out so grown out of it too! Think it was cos she came from kennels with little interaction with people and other pups fighting over food.

[xxshowponyxx]

Nov 3, 2011 10:07:47 GMT foster said:

Thanks everyone, poppy has improved lots over the past couple of days and sits queitly waiting for her food and when i put it down she will wait till i say its ok to eat it and then half way through i can ask her to sit back down and wait again. I feel that soon i will be able to feed her and she will know that it is her food and none of us are a threat to her.
She still isnt brill if the children come near her when eating and will growl. x

Im so pleased to hear you have seen some improvement already.

In order to 'elevate' your childrens status could they feed her - making her wait etc as you do?

[foster]

Hi all, we have had a good few days since i last came on here, the children are now feeding poppy and she sits nice and waits till they say its ok to eat, lets them stroke her while she eats and can take it away and she will sit and wait again.
i have upped her food slightly which i think has helped, she now doesnt seem as hungry and leave a little bit. xx

[xxshowponyxx]

Im so pleased its all going well for you and Poppy, sounds like she has a fantastic home for life now xx

[foster]

Well poppy is 6 months old now and is still with us she is still very protective of her food but we have just learned to live with this and leave her alone whilst she is eating.
shes a great dog the rest of the time, she is fully house trained now and comes to the stables daily just following me and Liv around, shes good with other dogs and fantastic with children loves playing fetch etc and the best thing is that she hates mud lol, she will tip toe around it and try her best to be a clean puppy
she is such a loyal dog and we all love her to bits xx

[bomerang]

how lovely and well done to you and your family x