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Post by sammiemooo on Dec 31, 2011 0:03:58 GMT
At Royal London champs my sister got told she had been dropped a place as our pony stood too square in his conformation judging. Really how can he be to square?? Then in Dengi Holly got told she did a perfect show, but she had been dropped a place as she crosses her reins and that is not the correct way to ride. She's always crossed them and has had lessons with Julie T and a teaching with Katy Carter. Ahh thats judges for you i suppose now bring on next season  |
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Post by melrob26 on Dec 31, 2011 0:23:51 GMT
Yes, judges for you.
I remember when i took my lostock filly as a yearling in hand in a yearling class and judge placed her 4th because she wasnt old enough .. she was 1yo to the day the others where much older but hey ho ..id only taken her for the experience mind.
Its just down to the judge on the day what they are looking for and prefer.
Standing too square is a puzzle though ? my fell always stands square i didnt know a pony could stand too square id have thought maybe if they wasnt completely square then that would be reason enough.
Like you say bring on next season and hope if same judge again your pony doesn't stand square just stands square enough lols
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Dec 31, 2011 6:01:37 GMT
Standing square is for ridden work. For conformation judging in hand the pony should be stood so that the judge can see all four legs at once from the side, ie with the foreleg on the judge's side slightly in front of the other, and the hindleg on the judge's side slightly behind the other, but still with weight on all four legs. This is the most flattering way to show off your pony's conformation.
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Post by jeanslater on Dec 31, 2011 8:30:58 GMT
Well said sarah and totally true, really I do wonder what the judging situation is sometimes, there are some terrible judges out there , some terrible judging made worse by the judge opening their mouths.
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Post by network on Dec 31, 2011 10:14:00 GMT
Well said sarah and totally true, really I do wonder what the judging situation is sometimes, there are some terrible judges out there , some terrible judging made worse by the judge opening their mouths. Sometimes however I do feel that competitors only hear what they want to hear, I have been in a class where a judge has been explaining her placings, then once outside the ring I heard the competitor saying something completely different to the people she was with. I personally like to hear the judges reasons for my placings, whether I agree with them or not is a different matter, but I smile nicely and leave it at that. I feel sorry for judges sometimes as they cannot seem to please anyone  |
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Post by rabbit on Dec 31, 2011 11:58:21 GMT
sometimes , when standing 'square' for comformation, with neck stretched forward, it gives the appearance of a very straight shoulder and forleg, the pony appears to be 'standing over itself' its not a good look and can really look like a conformation fault. much better to set your pony up with slightly 'staggered legs' and sitting up with a slkight arch to the neck with the head slightly tilted towards the judge, then when the judge swaps sides, you should too, takes a bit of practise, but will improve conformation marks by miles!  people seem to forget that the conformation and trot up is either equal to work marks or very nearly ie 40%/60%, so really easy to improve on with a bit of practise, even if your pony hasn't the best conformation |
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Post by helle on Dec 31, 2011 13:43:35 GMT
the problem with standing up is that it seems whichever way you do it it is never how the judge wants it done. If you stand up staggered you get asked to stand square and visa versa  |
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Post by jeanslater on Dec 31, 2011 14:06:29 GMT
Then ask the judge when you bring your pony forward , that way they cant moan , mind if you show you should be aware that ridden 'halts' are far different than showing a stripped horse for conformation. Ask, and ask again!!!
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Post by proudwilliam on Dec 31, 2011 19:43:19 GMT
My first hunter won a lot at local /county level . At the final Championship show he was pulled 4th. Lots of people commented and the judge said"" He has won enough this season I thought I would let someone else win instead!" I met the judge a few years later when I had other show horses He asked my why I never showed under him so I reminded him. He was very red faced!!! and apologized to me but I never showed under him again. I even pullled my horse from a class when the judge was a late replacement!! I was not going to give him the satisfaction of doing it again. I keep a diary of all judges now.
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Post by Julie(luke3) on Dec 31, 2011 20:38:44 GMT
Just remember.... There are some BLOODY GOOD JUDGES out there too  ;D |
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Post by sageandonion on Jan 1, 2012 12:26:01 GMT
I thought that explanation by sarahp on the standing square bit was excellent. Maybe take on board that, if you had asked the judge exactly how you should stand the pony up if not square, she probably would have been delighted to explain how you stand a pony up correct and she might even have demonstrated which would have been great.
I am not sure what you mean 'crossing the reins' but I cannot think of any time when crossing reins would be correct and if the class is really close then small things count. In future, don't cross the reins and then you won't be put down for it.
So all in all, good judging and we all learn each and every time we do a class.
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Post by armada on Jan 1, 2012 13:36:51 GMT
I thought that explanation by sarahp on the standing square bit was excellent. Maybe take on board that, if you had asked the judge exactly how you should stand the pony up if not square, she probably would have been delighted to explain how you stand a pony up correct and she might even have demonstrated which would have been great. I am not sure what you mean 'crossing the reins' but I cannot think of any time when crossing reins would be correct and if the class is really close then small things count. In future, don't cross the reins and then you won't be put down for it. So all in all, good judging and we all learn each and every time we do a class. I think she means when wearing a double, some people hold the curb rein above the bradoon rein and it crosses over near the hand, I was'nt aware it was incorrect. I think that is how Robert Walker chooses to hold his double reins. |
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Post by casper15 on Jan 3, 2012 19:07:31 GMT
I was at a show a few weeks ago at crow wood, the judge didn't even acknowledge i was in the ring and left me walking round whilst bringing others in to start their show! I would have liked to have heard her reason for that but the judge didn't speak to me at all, being 14, a reason would have been incredibly helpful to improve!
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Post by laraapril on Jan 3, 2012 19:40:19 GMT
I always cross my double reins! Always have done and will continue to do. Judges preference though!
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Post by bomerang on Jan 3, 2012 19:40:46 GMT
armada....... I see it the same way as you do! always has been variations of holding double reins.
casper.............. thats dreadful poor you, never mind put her name in your little book! xx
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dixie1
Junior Member
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Post by dixie1 on Jan 3, 2012 19:50:07 GMT
In my first ever show with new pony we were put last. It was a local show and there were about 10 in the class, all sorts and types. The judge told me he was not a lead rein pony. I wouldnt have minded but he was only 4 and went so sweetly, didnt put a foot out of place and had my seven year old daughter on board who had a lovely ride. There were lead reins tanking off and one even bucked. I wouldnt go in the ring with that judge again!
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Post by harajuku on Jan 3, 2012 21:36:23 GMT
i was at a local RC show once doing 'Open Ridden Showing exc 14.2' and my horse went foot perfect, we were placed last over naughty horse and wrong legged horses as we had a pelham on and all the others were in snaffles so the judge said they thought my horse had an unfair advantage being in a pelham! it said in the schedule any suitable bridle so wasnt even a snaffle only class and it was an open class!
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Post by armada on Jan 3, 2012 22:55:41 GMT
I was at a show a few weeks ago at crow wood, the judge didn't even acknowledge i was in the ring and left me walking round whilst bringing others in to start their show! I would have liked to have heard her reason for that but the judge didn't speak to me at all, being 14, a reason would have been incredibly helpful to improve! I think that is so bad, its difficult at area and county level for the judge to get to talk to everyone as classes are so tight, but at local level it is so important to have even a one sentence interchange with every competitor. So many are out for their first time, new to the game or just plain nervous and a kind word is so encouraging. I felt a little guilty on one occasion this year as I had a class of about 15 ridden ponies, and the lower end of the line needed a pointer or two and after a few higher had asked to leave, by the time I got to the poor girl holding the bottom up, the only ones left were 1st and 2nd, I apologised for keeping them, but they were cheery, and off they went on their lap of honour, I walked with the other young girl to the ring gate, she was grateful for my time. At another show I inadvertently helped another competitor as she heard I had some bits for sale that day, then before going home told the show sec I had been so helpful and encouraging and full of advice to both herself and her daughter, they'll come back, hopefully having acted upon my advice and do well, the personal touch makes all the difference, and I never forget that at one time, I was in their shoes. Take the time to ask the judge, even if you have to approach them yourself, mostly they are more than happy to offer constructive advice. |
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Post by muggley on Jan 4, 2012 8:58:15 GMT
I've heard every reason in the book for being placed down the line. The best one had to be in an in-hand class - "Your Pony has a sore back" - well yes he would sink his back away from you when you dig your fingernails into his spine! I refuse point blank to show under that judge again.
We've all been there. We've all been placed down the line underservedly but equally I am sure we have all been placed higher than we ourselves feel we deserved.
At the end of the day showing is just one or two peoples opinions on the day. They will either like or loath you and your pony but another day and another judge you will be flying high up the placings.
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Post by mosswood on Jan 4, 2012 23:29:33 GMT
On the issue of crossing reins. Picture in the paper yesterday of the queen riding a fell in a swales bit with ther reins.........crossed.
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Post by laurajazmine on Jan 4, 2012 23:42:17 GMT
I always respect judges decisions and put it down to each to their own, the only comment that has slightly annoyed me was being 2nd in a SHP class because apparently my mare is too pretty... There are many nice judges out there though that have given so many comments so I just keep them In mind |
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Post by nj on Jan 5, 2012 11:19:51 GMT
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Post by muggley on Jan 5, 2012 17:42:21 GMT
On the issue of crossing reins. Picture in the paper yesterday of the queen riding a fell in a swales bit with ther reins.........crossed. It's personal preferance and I never cross mine. I never use my curb rein and have a tendency to loosen my bottom rein without realising it so it never really makes a difference. |
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snowflake
Happy to help....a lot
Posts: 13,399
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Post by snowflake on Jan 6, 2012 23:46:59 GMT
It's a personal preference. When I was younger I did not cross them, as I got less confused, but now I always cross them. For me it helps me have a looser contact on the bottom rein. It's just judges & we need to accept we are paying for someone's opinion - so we can't really complain, they just gave their honest opinionon what they thought! |
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Post by Giddie on Jan 7, 2012 11:12:08 GMT
I would like to know why is there two three four ways to stand up a pony correctly, surely this makes a mockery of the judging system..How the hell is anyone suppose to know what is right and what is wrong for a particular judge, and how stupid l personally would feel to go into a ring trying to be as professional as possible to ask "oh bye the way how do you want me to stand up my pony" To me that is totally ridiculous. I was always taught to stand up my ponies as SarahP has described
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jan 7, 2012 12:33:18 GMT
Well I know of one way for IH and another - four square - for riddens and that's it! Thank you Giddie.
I wonder if some people have come across inexperienced, non-panel judges at local shows who aren't used to the normal convention? I sometimes wonder why some of them agree to do it, they must know how little they know. There are some great ones who don't want to go on panels but are very experienced but it's a bit hit and miss out there in the unaffiliated world.
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Post by nia2311 on Jan 7, 2012 20:11:01 GMT
Well I know of one way for IH and another - four square - for riddens and that's it! Thank you Giddie. I wonder if some people have come across inexperienced, non-panel judges at local shows who aren't used to the normal convention? I sometimes wonder why some of them agree to do it, they must know how little they know. There are some great ones who don't want to go on panels but are very experienced but it's a bit hit and miss out there in the unaffiliated world. I'd agree with that SarahP. In local shows, its almost inevitable that judges know competitors/riders/handlers personally, as they are often local people too, and there does seem to be a lot of matey prize giving, or ignoring of rules when they feel like it. Example at a local show - rules for lead rein classes stated minimum age for children riding was 4. Child who won class - judge asked "how old are you?" "I am THREE," she replied. So, they shouldn't have been in as the child was too young! Not to mention, the pony had been lunged to within an inch of its life for about an hour before going in...... |
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people seem to forget that the conformation and trot up is either equal to work marks or very nearly ie 40%/60%, so really easy to improve on with a bit of practise, even if your pony hasn't the best conformation 
;D
