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Post by bleanwoodro on Feb 8, 2012 19:00:06 GMT
great rules, i dont think any pros can justify competing in this class as rules are so tight well done equifest! u cant even do it if ur pony is sponsored, and no helps from the pros, i think this will give all amateurs a fair chance getting into the evening as the competion is getting better each year  cant wait |
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Post by fruity on Feb 10, 2012 14:44:06 GMT
Not so sure - if I read it correctly (and I'm pure home produced amateur) a person who's horse, for example, is on full livery at pro's yard and perhaps the pro even competes it in open qualifier classes for them, they can still compete that class?
That to me is not a true amatuer combination - though to be fair, where can the line be drawn?! This is always a long drawn discussion!!
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Post by bleanwoodro on Feb 10, 2012 15:24:52 GMT
No they can't. It can't be produced and on livery at a pro yards x
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Post by fruity on Feb 10, 2012 16:59:40 GMT
Is that by the affiliated body's rules the because thats not stated by Equifest?
I am fairly new to this so am very unsure what constitutes an 'amateur'.
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Post by clobo121082 on Feb 10, 2012 17:53:14 GMT
I think it can be. British Show Horse ones read the same I think and it was always that they can be produced but must be ridden by an amateur and not ridden in by producer or groomed by a producer on the day.
This is how RIHS etc ones are run otherwie technically this is no different really to a home produced class.
For instance when I had horses (hacks etc) I could still do the amateur classes as I derive no income or sponsorship from riding (I work full time in London) although my horse was produced. I actually think this is a fair rule.
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Post by fruity on Feb 10, 2012 17:56:30 GMT
Very confused now!
Buuut I can see all sides.... of the HP, the true amateur (who I suppose is technically HP??) and the amateur who has support because its necessary (I used to work in London too and my showjumpers were on full livery).
....and I can also see why this is much debated!!!
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Post by clobo121082 on Feb 10, 2012 18:02:27 GMT
Here you go
HOME PRODUCED CLASSES – These classes are open to horses and ponies that have been
stabled at home (without any paid assistance) or kept at livery on a DIY basis since 1st January
2012. Horses / ponies must not have been shown or trained by a professional Producer or kept
at full livery at any time during this period (except for service in the case of Brood Mares). To
be owned/kept, produced, ridden/handled by a person who does not derive their main income
from working with horses/ponies. It is anticipated that exhibitors will enter in the true spirit of
this competition.
RESTRICTED CLASSES – These classes are open to HORSES, PONIES AND RIDERS that
have not qualified for the Royal International Horse Show, the Horse of the Year or Olympia in
2011 or 2012 before the date of Equifest. This includes horses, ponies and riders that have
qualified for Search For A Star in 2011 or 2012.
AMATEUR CLASSES – These classes are restricted to exhibitors who do not:
a) Engage in breeding, livery, buying, selling or dealing in a commercial capacity.
b) Receive remuneration for employment in the connection with horses in racing, showing,
livery or riding school.
c) Show a horse owned or sponsored by a company or commercial firm.
d) On the day when an exhibit is competing in an Amateur class, Professionals are not
allowed to ride or work in the relevant animal. No Professional Producers are allowed
into the ring to groom/strip the horse.
So people can have their pony produced they just cannot be a producer themselves or recieve any money working with horses. This is the status of an Amateur. The pony doesnt have to be home produced.
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Post by bleanwoodro on Feb 10, 2012 18:06:01 GMT
that is fair enough, but at least the pro cant help them at a show,no different than having your horse schooled by a dressarge rider, i still think it is fair as a pro cant help on the day in grooming riding in, so even if the horse is produced the amateur rider still hasto make it go well!
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Post by bambam on Feb 18, 2012 21:40:42 GMT
Here you go HOME PRODUCED CLASSES – These classes are open to horses and ponies that have been stabled at home (without any paid assistance) or kept at livery on a DIY basis since 1st January 2012. Horses / ponies must not have been shown or trained by a professional Producer or kept at full livery at any time during this period (except for service in the case of Brood Mares). To be owned/kept, produced, ridden/handled by a person who does not derive their main income from working with horses/ponies. It is anticipated that exhibitors will enter in the true spirit of this competition. RESTRICTED CLASSES – These classes are open to HORSES, PONIES AND RIDERS that have not qualified for the Royal International Horse Show, the Horse of the Year or Olympia in 2011 or 2012 before the date of Equifest. This includes horses, ponies and riders that have qualified for Search For A Star in 2011 or 2012. AMATEUR CLASSES – These classes are restricted to exhibitors who do not: a) Engage in breeding, livery, buying, selling or dealing in a commercial capacity. b) Receive remuneration for employment in the connection with horses in racing, showing, livery or riding school. c) Show a horse owned or sponsored by a company or commercial firm. d) On the day when an exhibit is competing in an Amateur class, Professionals are not allowed to ride or work in the relevant animal. No Professional Producers are allowed into the ring to groom/strip the horse. So people can have their pony produced they just cannot be a producer themselves or recieve any money working with horses. This is the status of an Amateur. The pony doesnt have to be home produced. |
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Post by bambam on Feb 18, 2012 21:41:26 GMT
This is very helpful. I am a newcomer and it is all very confusing!
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Post by blakesmummy on Feb 22, 2012 10:18:10 GMT
I personally think the amateur section is a very grey area... on the other hand the home produced is exactly as it states and well be firmly where I aim my entries
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Post by LucyHebditch on Feb 22, 2012 10:35:01 GMT
I will be backing and schooling other peoples ponies, as well as buying youngsters to sell... So making a living out of horses... But I am home produced and do not take in other peoples horses to show so surely I can still do home produced?
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Feb 22, 2012 10:48:45 GMT
I will be backing and schooling other peoples ponies, as well as buying youngsters to sell... So making a living out of horses... But I am home produced and do not take in other peoples horses to show so surely I can still do home produced? HOME PRODUCED CLASSES – To be owned/kept, produced, ridden/handled by a person who does NOT derive their main income from working with horses/ponies. this competition so no you cant do home produced as your making money from horses |
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Post by ilovenatives on Feb 22, 2012 10:53:17 GMT
lhr123 i know a few in your position who do home produced classes . Not knowing an individuals situation it is hard to say if they are within the rules or not  . You are probably within the rules but you may get some saying you are not entering into the spirit of home produced classes . The home produced classes ive seen are normally as high standard as opens . My daughter has lessons with a instuctor who produces a few for the show ring , also she may get the odd ride for a producer . I understand under some society rules she may not be eligable for home produced . Not that i am to worried as we dont do a great deal of affiliated just mostly local stuff mainly and jumping / ponyclub with the odd area and county show if its local . |
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Post by ilovenatives on Feb 22, 2012 10:56:11 GMT
Maybe if the rules said " You must not derive an income from horse " it would be less off a grey area . If breaking a few and bringing on a few ponies to sell isnt LHT123s main income she would still be within the rules |
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Post by LucyHebditch on Feb 22, 2012 10:59:43 GMT
I will be backing and schooling other peoples ponies, as well as buying youngsters to sell... So making a living out of horses... But I am home produced and do not take in other peoples horses to show so surely I can still do home produced? HOME PRODUCED CLASSES – To be owned/kept, produced, ridden/handled by a person who does NOT derive their main income from working with horses/ponies. this competition so no you cant do home produced as your making money from horses Just seems really unfair as I am home produced. Just do a bit of breaking and schooling. I don't send my horses away, i do them myself. Therefore, am home produced  |
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Milliesmum
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COCKERP00S RULE!!!
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Post by Milliesmum on Feb 22, 2012 11:11:21 GMT
Best thing to do would be email the society concerned and explain your circumstances, and ask them whether you would be eligible. Then if they reply by email saying you can do HP, you will have it in writing to show anyone who might wish to query it.
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Post by LucyHebditch on Feb 22, 2012 11:11:58 GMT
Good idea! Thank you mm x
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Post by bleanwoodro on Feb 22, 2012 19:44:28 GMT
i would still say if you are taking payment for thebreaking even on a small scale and you dont have another job you cant do it, otherwise peoplethat break and school on a bigger scale but dont send theres away ect can do the same and enter there has to be a line i have been offered to take horses on i have turned them down so i keep my home produced status, i work im mcds instead! lol i would much rather get paid for horses but i want to keep as an amateur for as long as it can xx
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 29, 2012 20:49:11 GMT
The rules are very clear and in my eyes are directed towards people who work away from horses and therefore do not have the same amount of time to devote to schooling their animals hence the "main income" part of the rules. We all know that it is all about time spent on these creatures ;-)
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Post by not-a-charity on Mar 6, 2012 12:18:16 GMT
Are those that have the riding lesson's from professionals/producers still classed as home produced?
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Post by bleanwoodro on Mar 6, 2012 19:58:50 GMT
Yes aslong as Ur not at there yard and they ride and produced Ur horse. U can have like a lesson a week from them. Everyone needs riding lessons! Xx
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Post by bulls*&t on Apr 11, 2012 15:27:24 GMT
what if for example i have entered for the restricted but also yorkshire show(hoys) and we qualify at yorkshire show? does this mean i cant do the class and will get a refund?
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Post by bleanwoodro on Apr 26, 2012 10:15:59 GMT
U can't do ristircted if u have got Ur hoys ticket before the show I.had this last year Wen getting my ri ticket xx
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Post by hj49 on Apr 26, 2012 20:08:01 GMT
probably people will disagree but i think that the amateur classes allowing horses/ponies that have been produced is still unfair, although they are not being touched by a pro that day, the work hasn't been put in by the rider? it will just mean ready made ponies with an amateur rider
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Post by bleanwoodro on Apr 28, 2012 17:07:33 GMT
no they cant off of been at a producers yard! they haveto be kept at home ect, i think its fair as even as an amatuer if ur sponsored you cant do it
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Post by fruity on May 1, 2012 12:56:57 GMT
An amateur can be on a producers yard, they just can't have the producer involved on the day
I won;t shoot you down hj49 - I actually agree with you about ready made, push buttons rider 'v' the blood sweat and tears true amateur rider.
Buuuut there has to be a place for everyone, so this is a rule whicxh is always going to create conflicting rules.
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Post by fruity on May 1, 2012 12:57:17 GMT
An amateur can be on a producers yard, they just can't have the producer involved on the day
I won;t shoot you down hj49 - I actually agree with you about ready made, push buttons horse 'v' the blood sweat and tears horse.
Buuuut there has to be a place for everyone, so this is a rule which is always going to create conflicting views.
MOA - having had a blood sweat and tears winter with my new, young horse, a good result will mean so much more to me :-) and I will have a huge sense of achievement :-)
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Post by bigmama on May 1, 2012 18:24:09 GMT
I really think there needs to be a class for those who keep their ponies at home, do everything for them themselves and do not make any income at all from horses .. this would eliminate the grey area and make the home-produced classes pure ... i know some of you will say that those who keep their ponies at home and not on livery yards are lucky and yes we are but we do not have the help, tips and comeraderie others receive from being on a livery yard and also if that yard has a professional trainer either in charge or on livery then who can say what help the other liveries receive?
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Post by bulls*&t on May 2, 2012 17:51:50 GMT
well best not pre enter then you never know what might happen and dont wanna waste an entry fee if i cant do it because i qualified before the day..... i agree though someone that sends their ponies away to a producer still means their horse is produced which give us "real home produced" an unfair disadvantage... but lets not forget its all fun and games!! thats why we do it...  |
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cant wait 
. You are probably within the rules but you may get some saying you are not entering into the spirit of home produced classes . The home produced classes ive seen are normally as high standard as opens . 
