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Post by bleanwoodro on May 2, 2012 18:07:44 GMT
Well amateurs with stables are so lucky all mine live out 24/7 365 days a year they love it but hard work, so when I got my ri ticket and championships at big winter champs it ment so much and pics in h and h. Just show amateurs can do it we don't even have electric! If i can do it everybody can  |
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Post by fruity on May 2, 2012 19:28:09 GMT
Good call bleanwoodro and congratulations on your champs and RI ticket. Huge, massive achievement and proof it can been done by us "blood, sweat and tears, home produced amateurs". I am fortunate to have eleccy and stables :-), but I also have a job, 1yo old twins and an OH to look after (yes, last probably!!) so like you say, hard hard work, but when it goes right WOW :-)
It will be interesting to see how these "classification" may change over the coming years - there is much dissent amongst competitors and whilst there is a need for a place for everyone, perhaps there will be a rise in prestige and opportunity for true home produced amatuers??
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Post by bulls*&t on May 2, 2012 19:33:46 GMT
very true to all above... will be interesting to see how long it lasts, as wasnt equifest for home produced/amateurs originally anyway?
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Post by fruity on May 2, 2012 21:01:56 GMT
I've also come across British Elite - never been, but having looked at the schedule from last year, it would seem purely HP/amateur
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Post by bleanwoodro on May 2, 2012 21:12:38 GMT
I would love to see a class for true amateurs and that do it on there own but u will always get it where some one cheats and goes into a class, so now I just think I have to beat them at there own game in the opens and it keeps me motivated in the rain mud and snow haha, British elite I have hurd is a fab show was thinking about it but it lies very close to the chaps champs and from Kent driving up to arena twice is not fun! But i would say deffo give it a go I'm looking forward to the amateur classes and hope people enter in the sport of it all, I can do the noive class on my boy as was broken last year but i can't do the restricted  so looking forward to the amateur classes if Ur there u must come and say hi |
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Post by clobo121082 on May 3, 2012 8:59:36 GMT
I am an Amateur rider. I work full time in London and have one pony at home (not my actual home a field 15 mins down the road) that I do myself - from a field with no electric, stable etc etc however I also have a pony on a producers yard - in my opinion I am still very much an amateur, I earn no money from horses and I work exceptionally hard as well. In all honesty I would love to be able to have my pony at home and when I was younger we did however sometimes circumstances just don't lend themselves to that - sometimes it can be harder being the rider who doesnt get to ride their pony everyday but I can assure you just because my pony is kept somewhere else doesnt mean I don't endure the blood, sweat and tears and getting them to where they are. Home produced is as described in many of the posts above and there is a class for that - amateurs is a totally different class and I think there should be a class for those as well. The horse societies have always had amateur classes and they have always worked well.
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Post by chloesmum on May 3, 2012 10:30:31 GMT
Just to add we cannot do home produced although one pony is totally home produced as the other one is in a yard, so it is nice to have an amateur class - oherwise said home produced pony would only have the opens to do!
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Post by fruity on May 3, 2012 12:56:24 GMT
Bleanwoodro - think we're going to give British Elite a go this year, but will also be at Equifest. Which ones are you doing? - will def say hi
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Post by bleanwoodro on May 3, 2012 17:12:08 GMT
Loads of shows this year Wat classes u doing at equifest, yes i do under stand u are an amateur in your right but some one who has got the time and hours to put into Ur pony, so its getting the hours work wich us amateurs that have them at home can't do, I do think search for a star are going the right way on making it a totally pro free production zone even if pros put an amateur on bored. U are an amateur rider but a produced pony don't see how its fair somtimes |
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Post by clobo121082 on May 4, 2012 8:51:45 GMT
I understand your point but it is an Amateur rider class - no offence but otherwise the amateur class would be exactly the same as the home produced. The idea is to have two different classes, not the same class with a different name x
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Post by bleanwoodro on May 4, 2012 9:00:19 GMT
No I dp under stand that but there is also grey areas with home produced no one will ever b happy lol
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Post by fruity on May 4, 2012 9:00:43 GMT
We're starting out in Hunter weights this year - new combo, had the boy since last September and he's proved to be a reacl challenge, hence the bood sweat & tears comment, but we're coming out the other side now after all manner of challenges.
The amateur issue is complicated and I can see both side. I'm fortunate to have my horses at home, but I also work full time and have 10mth old twins - horses are done before 7am and after 7pm - sometimes I thought about sending the boy away, but I didn;t want him produced for me, I wanted to be the one that ironed out his issues and worked through the problems. The sense of achievement I am beginning to feel now makes up for the tears, blisters and bloody noses!!
Clobo - please, this is no dig at you at all. I fully appreciate the pressures you face and that sometimes choice doesn't come into it.
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Post by iluvmyponies on May 4, 2012 12:47:51 GMT
All this HP & Amateur stuff is getting a bit too open IMO, the rules are too vague & they are very similar. The one thing I don't like about the HP rule is that they only have to have been HP since the 1st January in that year, so the horse could have been with a producer for years, then someone could get this horse on LOAN in December then compete in HP classes the following year. That, to me, is NOT HP.
Am I right in saying that a horse could be getting produced at the time of the show, but the producer could bring the horse to compete in the Amateur classes & the horses owner had to work in & compete the horse, but this is completely innocent? Pftt.
Very confusing!
MTA- I am completely HP & keep my horses at our own yard 15 minutes from home & make no money from horses, so I am an Amateur also, but I just think these rules should be stricter to make it pinpointed for true HP & Amateur animals & competitors.
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Post by fruity on May 4, 2012 16:47:41 GMT
Fair point and I agree.
I'm sure I read on a recent schedule somewhere the restriction as the pony/horse couldn't have been on a producers 12 months preceding the show - that seemed a little better rather then the Jan 1st rule
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Post by bumblebee on May 6, 2012 22:54:43 GMT
The word 'amateur' is always debatable!! Last year at the BSPA summers I was not able to enter any amateur classes because I earnt my main income working with horses (despite working as a groom so wasn't breaking/schooling/producing etc). It was my first season showing (ever!!) and I had a 5 yr old cob who had never been out before last season. Yet someone who works in an office, has their pony with a producer, qualifies for HOYS every year etc can do the amateur classes - hardly seemed fair really!!
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Post by fruity on May 7, 2012 15:02:30 GMT
Thats a really good and interesting point bumblebee. That must've been tough for you
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Post by bumblebee on May 9, 2012 19:19:46 GMT
Luckily we're eligible for amateur classes this year as I've changed jobs, but did seem a bit harsh of them making 2 complete novices go in with all the big boys!!
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Post by fruity on May 11, 2012 10:43:58 GMT
well good luck this year
(are you at s suffolk this w'end? - I wonder if I'll work out who you are by equifest, our paths must have surely crossed!!)
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Post by bumblebee on May 12, 2012 13:35:11 GMT
Not at South Suffolk - will PM you with my identity  |
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Post by truthseaker on Apr 10, 2014 14:06:53 GMT
Hmmm true spirt , morals and grey areas , that's cleared that matter up well !!
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Apr 12, 2014 7:32:20 GMT
The word 'amateur' is always debatable!! Last year at the BSPA summers I was not able to enter any amateur classes because I earnt my main income working with horses (despite working as a groom so wasn't breaking/schooling/producing etc). It was my first season showing (ever!!) and I had a 5 yr old cob who had never been out before last season. Yet someone who works in an office, has their pony with a producer, qualifies for HOYS every year etc can do the amateur classes - hardly seemed fair really!! Most affiliated societies say you cant earn your living from horses even just being a groom As said it amateur riders |
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Apr 12, 2014 7:37:10 GMT
HOME PRODUCED CLASSES – To be owned/kept, produced, ridden/handled by a person who does NOT derive their main income from working with horses/ponies. this competition so no you cant do home produced as your making money from horses Just seems really unfair as I am home produced. Just do a bit of breaking and schooling. I don't send my horses away, i do them myself. Therefore, am home produced If thats the view you take then Katie Jerram keeps her own horses at home and produces them herself and does abit of schooling, imagine her trying to argue her way into a HP class there would be uproar |
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Post by larkhaven on Apr 12, 2014 7:58:22 GMT
I will be backing and schooling other peoples ponies, as well as buying youngsters to sell... So making a living out of horses... But I am home produced and do not take in other peoples horses to show so surely I can still do home produced? HOME PRODUCED CLASSES – To be owned/kept, produced, ridden/handled by a person who does NOT derive their main income from working with horses/ponies. this competition so no you cant do home produced as your making money from horses It says MAIN income, so anyone with another job should be able to compete. |
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aura
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Post by aura on Apr 15, 2014 22:18:50 GMT
If the amateur rule stated not to be kept at a producers/trainers yard then it's just another home produced class.
I think it's a great class, the judges can not be facey as no producer can enter the ring or be seen riding your horse before the class.
I work from mid day until 9pm and I have two unhorsey parents so would not manage alone And really appreciate a class that is open for those whos are not professional.
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dis
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Post by dis on May 9, 2014 21:29:28 GMT
So home produced must not be by person whos income is derived from working with horses in any respect, not just those who are training horses for showing?so if you worked as a groom or bringing horses on to sell, you cannot be home produced?
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Post by horse14 on May 17, 2014 9:01:50 GMT
It doesn't stop them entering or trying thou Britsh elite always has producers there and top horses Not fair at all but I surppose that's showing for you :/ Even at local shows I have see county level horses ect there which sometime makese think why do we bother as not a hope in hell But we love equifest and are saying is if we come home with a rosettes we have done great And luckily the last two years we have brought a rosette or two home so we were over the moon x |
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aura
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Post by aura on Jun 4, 2014 3:55:58 GMT
So home produced must not be by person whos income is derived from working with horses in any respect, not just those who are training horses for showing?so if you worked as a groom or bringing horses on to sell, you cannot be home produced? Yes that's correct, you can also not enter the amature classes either. I have never understood the confusion or 'grey' area with these rules. They are quiet simple, it only gets confusing when people try to bend or break them and if people were to make a formal complaint to the relevant society at the time of the incident then this would happen less. |
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aura
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Post by aura on Jun 4, 2014 4:11:34 GMT
All this HP & Amateur stuff is getting a bit too open IMO, the rules are too vague & they are very similar. The one thing I don't like about the HP rule is that they only have to have been HP since the 1st January in that year, so the horse could have been with a producer for years, then someone could get this horse on LOAN in December then compete in HP classes the following year. That, to me, is NOT HP. Am I right in saying that a horse could be getting produced at the time of the show, but the producer could bring the horse to compete in the Amateur classes & the horses owner had to work in & compete the horse, but this is completely innocent? Pftt. Very confusing! MTA- I am completely HP & keep my horses at our own yard 15 minutes from home & make no money from horses, so I am an Amateur also, but I just think these rules should be stricter to make it pinpointed for true HP & Amateur animals & competitors. A new buyer can not help where the pony has been kept before, should people be penalised because the previous owner could afford to have said pony produced full time? How unreasonable and unfair for the new owners. In relation to the amature it's about the rider- the rider must be amature, not produce or make any income from horses and not have undergone any training from the 1st Jan that current year. As said in my previous post, I am 22, I work full time with two unhorsey parents, I could not manage having horses at home Nor do I have the facility so my horses are kept with a producer- that does not put me at any advantage in an amature class, I still have to ride well enough to make the horse perform on the day and my producer can not help me at all so the result is down to my ability. If there was not the amature class in the m&m sections riders of all ages that are not fortunate enough to have ponies at home including children would be put against the likes of KMP, Julie Barton, Sam Roberts ect just because they do not have time to run a pony at home. The amature class gives riders an opportunity to ride at a higher level without producers being able to take the top two spots. |
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Post by connemaras123 on Jun 4, 2014 8:07:48 GMT
The rules are never going to not have a grey area, there are always individual circumstances that fall somewhere between the rules, so these people just need to clarify with the society.
I personally feel that if you are a good rider with a good pony, then you are at no disadvantage to someone riding a pony that has been schooled by a producer. So I think the rules are fair for amateur. The only disadvantage I ever feel amateurs / home produced SOMETIMES have when against professionals, is judging that seems to depend on whose face is on top of the pony or stripping the pony.
I am a complete amateur/home produced by all rules and always have been, my ponies look and go no different to a producers. So in my opinion, if you are a good amateur, there is no disadvantage in these classes if a pony has been schooled by a producer and then an amateur rides it in the ring. Amateurs just need to step their game up and not pick fault in rules that are in fact fair (IMO).
I think equifest has the rules spot on and as fair as they can make it.
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Post by truthseaker on Jun 4, 2014 9:39:25 GMT
Hp should be entered in the true spirt it was intended, to give people a chance who are not produced ,!!!! To get these rules clear they need to stop producers having any other connection to hp people apart from a lesson , they I'm my eyes should not be allowed to have ridden the pony in the last 12 mths, helped out with any advise at shows county level or unaffiliated ,also I think if hp unaffiliated were not allowed to have competed at county level or RI , hoys qualifiers and bsps champs etc etc, then they would eliminate the pot hunters ,,,, there really needs to be something to separate true hp and people attending these shows for the red ribbons !
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so looking forward to the amateur classes 
