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Post by carrie17491 on Feb 21, 2012 9:27:46 GMT
My friend has a 21 year old cob gelding that really leans on the bit. So much so she has very sore elbows after riding! She has tried giving him his head - this results in him tanking off. She has also changed his bit numerous times.
He is now back in a normal eggbut snaffle, as this seems to be the one he responds to most however he is still really leaning.
His tack etc are fine, could anyone reccomend a bit that he may find more comfortable and accept better? To describe what he does: he pulls his head right down, clamps on the bit and throws his head right up. He constantly does this when asking for contact but as I say everything health and tack wise is fine. He also doesn't do it when her very novice sister rides - I assume this is because there is no contact. She also won't put him in a waterford before anyone suggests this, personal preference she doesn't like them. I personally don't have a problem, if the bit suits the horse then there isn't an issue in my eyes.
Or is it just the fact that he is now 21 and got away with it for so long and so it's become a habit? I have heard of "head shakers" but not sure if this is what he is doing as I have never seen one?
Any help appreciated
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Post by nia2311 on Feb 21, 2012 11:12:05 GMT
Has she tried him in a martingale to see if that helps with the throwing his head up?
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Post by carrie17491 on Feb 21, 2012 11:41:20 GMT
No, but he doesn't always do it.
I don't think a martingale would help as they mask the problem - they don't solve it
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Post by sageandonion on Feb 21, 2012 12:25:11 GMT
Not saying that very mature horses cannot be reschooled, but I think I personally would now accept him the way he is unless this is a recent thing. If he was bought like that then that is what he is. It is probably a reasonably confirmed habit caused by previous riding styles, but the chap will by now have the shape and muscles that he has. I am not sure if it is fair to try to reshape and lighten him up, I think it may caused physical problems.
I think, whilst he may be in reasonable shape for his age with regard to teeth and physique, he still has the body of a mature chap and you shouldn't push him out of his comfort zone.
I would let him enjoy his twilight years on a loose rein, maybe even ride western style. I would keep him in walk with a little trot and if he tanks off and throws his head in the air which afterall is dangerous behaviour even if he isn't doing it in a naughty fashion and she will not use a waterford or a running martingale then, were she my friend, I would tell her what else does she expect.
So sorry that sounds rude, not meant to be, just that is what I would say to one of my own friends.
This is from a snaffle/schooling person, but this chap will know more about the world and riding than I.
I would not say this is classic head shaking.
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Post by carrie17491 on Feb 21, 2012 12:43:45 GMT
Not saying that very mature horses cannot be reschooled, but I think I personally would now accept him the way he is unless this is a recent thing. If he was bought like that then that is what he is. It is probably a reasonably confirmed habit caused by previous riding styles, but the chap will by now have the shape and muscles that he has. I am not sure if it is fair to try to reshape and lighten him up, I think it may caused physical problems. I think, whilst he may be in reasonable shape for his age with regard to teeth and physique, he still has the body of a mature chap and you shouldn't push him out of his comfort zone. I would let him enjoy his twilight years on a loose rein, maybe even ride western style. I would keep him in walk with a little trot and if he tanks off and throws his head in the air which afterall is dangerous behaviour even if he isn't doing it in a naughty fashion and she will not use a waterford or a running martingale then, were she my friend, I would tell her what else does she expect. So sorry that sounds rude, not meant to be, just that is what I would say to one of my own friends. This is from a snaffle/schooling person, but this chap will know more about the world and riding than I. I would not say this is classic head shaking. I'm 100% with you on that one, I just thought there may be a logical answer but being a mature lad, what's the saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks"? It's more for the sake of her younger sister who rides, she obviously doesn't want him to do it with her. |
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Post by sageandonion on Feb 21, 2012 14:36:20 GMT
I would be reluctant to put the little novice sister on if he might run off even if only occasionally. Not safe for him or the sister.
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Post by fruity on Feb 21, 2012 14:43:02 GMT
I might tentatively stick my hand up and say I think they can be reschooled at that age, if done gently and properly, ie no gadgets, to force it along.
I have a veteran hunter who was happy with his upside down neck, who set against a contact, raced everywhere and leant horrendously on the left rein. I was lucky to find a fab instructor who in the last 12 months helped me encourage him to go long and low and then slowly we picked him up again. I can't believe myself how much he's changed and as a rising 19yo,that he's been able to go out and compete and win up to Elementary level. He absolutely loves his dressage now and I think because he's working better is actually feeling and more comfortable in himself.
So I would say consider the flatwork - if the horse is fit and well, then perhaps the right instructor can help. I appreciate this might not work for everyone, but it might be possible. Some of these veterans have plenty more to give and can surprise still us.
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Post by carrie17491 on Feb 21, 2012 15:11:44 GMT
I would be reluctant to put the little novice sister on if he might run off even if only occasionally. Not safe for him or the sister. As daft as this may sound, he doesn't do it when she is on him. He's perfect, yet get a more capable rider on him and he starts messing...it's strange!! |
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Post by carrie17491 on Feb 21, 2012 15:12:14 GMT
I might tentatively stick my hand up and say I think they can be reschooled at that age, if done gently and properly, ie no gadgets, to force it along. I have a veteran hunter who was happy with his upside down neck, who set against a contact, raced everywhere and leant horrendously on the left rein. I was lucky to find a fab instructor who in the last 12 months helped me encourage him to go long and low and then slowly we picked him up again. I can't believe myself how much he's changed and as a rising 19yo,that he's been able to go out and compete and win up to Elementary level. He absolutely loves his dressage now and I think because he's working better is actually feeling and more comfortable in himself. So I would say consider the flatwork - if the horse is fit and well, then perhaps the right instructor can help. I appreciate this might not work for everyone, but it might be possible. Some of these veterans have plenty more to give and can surprise still us. Good advice, thank you x |
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Post by speedysally on Feb 21, 2012 17:32:22 GMT
have you tried a bitless bridle? then he has nothing to pull on accept his nose! i had my pony in that when she got strong and was leaning down to tank off with me- it really did help! it's worth a shot, i bought a brand new one off ebay for £23! even comes with reins and a lovely diamante brownband
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Feb 21, 2012 18:36:35 GMT
As for martingales - some horses throw their heads so far up that there is a danger of them hitting the rider in the face, not to be recommended! If he does this, a standing martingale, adjusted so that it comes into effect only when his head goes above safety level, would be a sensible safety precaution, but would obviously perform no schooling function.
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Post by tbmare on Feb 21, 2012 21:48:45 GMT
Ih vae a similar prolem with my mare she is 18 now.. and had an injury hen she was 4 ending in a sling for months .. i knew nothing of this and oned her form 8 yrs she always was hard work and leaned especially on the left rein in canter.. and i too have been through the bit collecton.. there is no magical bit.. that i have come accross as yet... i have private lesson on her to help correct this problem.. had the physio out.. teeth saddle made ..ect.. it was only when her old oner came looking for her.. she thought she had been PTS that she explained about the injury. everything fell into place.. she is arthritic and leans on the bit for support for me to help her round the corners.. she too carries quite nicely until asked to come up of the forehand.. she was shown for some of her life and knew a lot of her stuff
i am not saying that this has happened to your by any means.. but perhaps there might be some arthritics issues you don't kno about like me... even the vets are stunned when i tell them what has happened to her.
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Post by vikki85 on Feb 22, 2012 7:47:00 GMT
I agree with fruity that depending on the horses health and fitness and providing he has been checked for any underlying issues such as pain or old injury, etc, it's not too late to do some gentle schooling with him. I have a 26 year old welsh cob that would chuck his head about, tank off, jog, etc, etc. When I got a decent instructor we really managed to turn him around. He was by no means perfect as old habits do die hard but massive improvement in his physical appearance and he was much safer and more enjoyable to ride.
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Post by carrie17491 on Feb 22, 2012 9:30:52 GMT
There is no chance of riding him in a bitless bridle haha!! he's far too strong.
He doesn't throw it high, just messes. We seem to think it's the bit that isn't right for him so at least when we change that we can rule it out.
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dippymare
Junior Member
Horse power has 4 legs, not 4 wheels!!
Posts: 174
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Post by dippymare on Feb 26, 2012 21:02:35 GMT
What about something with keys, rollers or sweet iron to get him interested in the bit? my mare leans heavy and has pulled both mine and my instructors shoulders out their sockets.
She is now in a 3 ring gag. rein on bottom ring. I used to hate these bits, still do to a certain degree, but its all I have found that has an effect on her even a waterford had no effect other than tossing her head around to evade it. she is one paced and that is break neck fast, dead in the mouth and leans. We are working on this and hope to be able to drop down the severity list and it is my goal to have her in a much milder bit in a few months.
Hope you find something that works for the horse and rider. x
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Post by Jessica on Feb 27, 2012 19:58:16 GMT
You will find a bitless bridle is by no means weak!
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Post by hjshill on Feb 28, 2012 9:57:17 GMT
Has he had his teeth checked?
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Post by carrie17491 on Feb 28, 2012 10:14:45 GMT
You will find a bitless bridle is by no means weak! His owner won't have him in a bitless. |
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Post by carrie17491 on Feb 28, 2012 10:16:24 GMT
Has he had his teeth checked? I got told at weekend apparently not, please don't get me started because I was fuming to find this out. He apparently rubs his face too, tell tale signs?! But she can't afford to get his teeth done....*sighs and shakes head* So it looks like this is the cause guys although I thought his teeth had been done |
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Post by prettyreckless on Feb 28, 2012 11:03:07 GMT
only problem is if its been that long since he last had his teeth done then the problem wont go away after/if she has him done...
my old man had/has always had his teeth done on time, unfortunately when i first got him the dentist i used wasn't doing his back molars properly, it was after 3 years of having him and i really started to have problems, i felt like banging my head against a brick wall with him, then a friend of mine got out another dentist and i thought bugger it what have i got to lose he checked his mouth and the poor guy had deep lacerations on the left side.. so much so i didn't ride him for 6 months and then got this new dentist back out again just to make sure he was OK ... i was absolutely livid as you can imagine he had only been done one month prior to this new dentist coming...
unfortunately the pain associated with being ridden with his mouth that bad never went away and even now at 17 he still leans on the left and it really hurts my shoulder.. i cant have him in a snaffle as he is to strong, even waterfords don't work...
i put him in a tom thumb bit, its sweet iron with copper rollers as well as a bit of poll pressure, he loves it and he really settles... he goes well in a double to and slowly with the help of that iv started using the curb less and less...
on a re schooling note i had an older mare that came to me when she was 20, she had an upside down neck also i gently did some re schooling whilst out on hacks etc and she still came right.. just a case of slowly slowly with the older ones and not to push them ;D
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Post by hjshill on Feb 28, 2012 12:45:23 GMT
Then unfortunately for him, until his teeth are done she will continue to have this problem and no amount of bit changes will solve it .
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