Not happy in any bit? advise please.

[angelena]

Hi all. My welsh C never seems happy in any bit I have tried her with. The main issue is when I try to pull her up ( gentle squeeze) at junctions whilst hacking, she will fight, raise her head in air and toss her head about.

She can work nicely schooling in a snaffle but can still be strong at the same time. Have also tried bitless, she leans, she pulls to one side and I have no control.

I have just taken her out of a gag and put her in a french link hanging cheek and to be honest I had more control in a gag, don't want to put gag back in though.

She doesn't like pelhams, she constantly throws her head about. She is booked in for her teeth doing this week for her yearly check up. Any advise welcome

[Milliesmum]

Have a chat with your dentist, he or she may be able to recommend something based on her mouth conformaton that she would be comfortable in. I'd also get her back/poll checked just to rule out any other pain related cause.

[Sasha]

I assume you ave a dentist not just the vet, as it's horses for courses with most things and this is no exception. Once the dentist has ruled out her mouth, as milliesmum said it's time to rule out back and neck problems. Just a quick question does she shake her head when no contact on the reins? Perhaps a quick check in her ears just to be sure she doesn't have any irritation there either

[angelena]

Yes I have a very good dentist, don't use vets for teeth. She's fine with no contact on the reins. Not sure as she is ok with her ears been touched?

I will get her checked once teeth are ruled out . But I'm sure she has always been like this even after having teeth & backed checked.

I was told she had her wolf teeth out, that's why she wouldn't except a bit without a fight but she has got much better with this so don't know.

[Milliesmum]

Just re-reading the original post, the thing that struck me is that with a gag, a hanging cheek or a pelham there will be an element of poll pressure, which wouldn't be there with a plain snaffle. I wonder if it's the poll pressure she objects to?

If she's happy in a snaffle but you need more brakes, have you tried a doctor bristol?

I wouldn't do anything till the dentist's been though. x

[angelena]

You might of just hit the nail on the head their for me

I have a second bridle that I somtimes use to lunge her in with a Dr bristol in, have always noticed she saliva's in this bit and comes down nicely and works nice and soft in it.

She NEVER saliva's in any other bit. Think I should ride her in it and see how she goes, will ask the dentist to check it too. Hmmm not sure why I have never ridden her in it? :/

[Milliesmum]

Is it made from a different metal by any chance?

[angelena]

Think it's just stainless steel will double check though. Just been reading the difference between French link and Dr Bristol and they are completely different bits.

I think my mare prefers the Dr Bristol we will see...fingers crossed x

[Milliesmum]

Yes the central piece of a Dr. Bristol sits with the narrow edge on the tongue, rather than flat like a french link. Depends what you want to do though as I don't think it's dressage legal.

[sageandonion]

I would be very surprised if you do not have a issue with the teeth. Please wait until you have seen the dentist.

[angelena]

Dentist is due tomorrow so will let you all know...thanks

[angelena]

Had dentist she had a few sharp edges but nothing nasty in there. I asked about bitting and he suggested a lady at Pollington which is where I bought my pony from.

She is a bitting lady so tries them on until she finds the right bit for horse. If I can get her there I believe bitting is free. He did say she hasn't got much room in her mouth so needs a thin bit

He just thinks she's getting too much spring grass which is tanking her up making her fizzy, but I then said no, it's as soon as contact has a bit of pressure on, so we are thinking it's the bit.

Thanks again for your help ladies

[showingforfun]

Have you tried her in a Neue Schule bit? Find them great on our Section C.

[showingfanatic]

Maybe rule out back/neck as mentioned above first. Dr bristols aren't dressage legal i don't think but I found it really gave me some extra breaks on a pony that was a bit too forward for a normal snaffle and evasive in anything with poll pressure. Have you ever tried her with a sweet iron/copper mouthpiece?
Also just a quick note about ears, think someone mentioned above getting them checked, if you did please be very careful, I have a mare who is now immensely head shy and nye impossible to trim near her ears due to vet fiddling about checking her ears...

[angelena]

Apr 25, 2012 21:09:36 GMT showingforfun said:

Have you tried her in a Neue Schule bit? Find them great on our Section C.

No however it has crossed my mind, what sort would you choose for good breaks?

Yes, also thought about a sweet iron it's the only bit I don't own

I honestly don't think their's anything wrong with her ears as she lets me touch them with no bother.

I mentioned to the dentist the Dr Bristol and he said they are cruel I told him that it is the only bit my mare excepts, works nice in, saliva's in. So she must be fine in it?

I think everyone has different opinions on bits I'm sure I will know when my girl is happy

I can see this been an expensive thing

[sageandonion]

You dentist sounds like he knows exactly what is what and is spot on. I would say you are looking at a schooling issue.

To what level is your mare schooled? how old? how long have you had her?

[Milliesmum]

I would disagree about a Dr. Bristol being cruel, it just acts in a different way, i.e. on the tongue rather than the poll. At the end of the day it's what suits your horse and what you are safe with. There are certainly a lot worse bits out there.

[angelena]

I have owned her coming up 2 years this August, she was a late starter at the age of 5. So she is rising 8 this year.

I only have a small paddock to school in but she tries really hard to please. She does some lovely transactions, she comes down on the bit nicely on her own but sometimes ( not always) when contact is made it can go all to pot.

She is not at the level I want her at and I do put this down to the bit as she is just not happy.

I also school whilst out hacking, this is where I find the biggest problems arise mainly at stopping at junctions. She does love her hacks out and is very forward going with her ears pricked forward at all times

I have 30 years experience with horses, so not a novice. I seriously think we have a bit issue on our hands

[Milliesmum]

Might be worth getting a good instructor in just as an eye on the ground and an opinion from someone who's not involved if you know what I mean. I used to ride a school pony who hated anything but the very lightest contact on the reins but he had been beautifully schooled and you could stop him just with your seat and back, the more you tried to hold him the more he'd fight you.

[jackdaniels]

how about asking her to stand before you get to junctions and giving her lots of praise? try to school her out of anticipating the junctions sometimes ponies think they know best and the routes they want to take! they need reminding its not their way!! x sounds like she s evading you as an excuse to run off, doesn t sound like a bitting issue, you could pop a running martingale on her to stop her head coming above the bit which will give you more control, don t forget to keep your legs on riding into the halt transition too

[angelena]

She could well be evading me I do pull her up quite a few times before we approach a junction, infact now you mention it she is more flighty the nearer we get to it, this is when the hair goes up in the air, the head tossing starts, along with the pulling.

Last time I hacked out I had to circle her about 5 times, I would NOT let her go until she stood still, which must of taken about 5 minutes

I do relax try my best with my legs but sometimes we forget about them

Millesmum: I have been thinking about getting an instructer so will be looking into this, also I do ride from my seat and back having been taught from previous lessons. Thanks again ladies your total gems

[angelena]

Forgot to mention last time I put her in a martingale she planted her feet and wouldn't move an inch...stubben mule. Lol!

[speedysally]

i had exactly the same issue with my pony and i'd tried bitless riding and a gag aswell and i found out it was because her tongue was so big!!!! i've tried her in a loose ring snaffle (with french link) and a half cheek snaffle with a french link and she went a lot better in that! hope you get it sorted soon!x

[tbmare]

Havng the same years of experiance i too thought i was good at scholing until i moved yards and there was aldy on site who gave lesson.. i just wanted too understand the showing aspect and have ago at dressage at some point ( alway did showjumping )..well what a shock i was in for.. yes i good seat, hands, balance strong legs etc.. but it as the little thing like using your half halt at the right time that made a differance!! i am so glad i asked for her help and now have weekly lesson with her... you see my mare is the same... been through the bittery. she is so strong for an anglo.she will back of the bridle by throwing her head up or by leaning real hard on the bit!! she is 19 now and i have managed to make changes in her she works better.. still have momnt when she " fights " and some day we have none and she works lovely.. and shows well too now.
the other mare we have came back into work after having a foal.. and constantly threw her head up and down.. we have a lovely lady who comes ( equine therapist )and puts right by manipulation and massage.. she had pressure on her pool, neck, shoulders and back! No wonder she kept throing her head about.
Finally i had a C mare who only bit she was happy in was a Sprenger loose ring with a link.. one of the earlier models.
you are not on your own.. and i have shared some of my experiance that have helped me.that may be of some use to and your mare ....good luck

[sageandonion]

You do need to have an instructor in. It is impossible to decide the answer though you have tried to describe as best you can.

[angelena]

Thanks for advise tbmare I will, and intend to get to the bottom of the problem. Whether it's my problem, my mares problem or whatever, lol.

Only ever had good comments about the physical side of her.

Back specialist - excellent joints

Dentist - excellent mouth

Farrier - excellent feet

Never been told that with any other horse/pony I've ever owned, it's either one or the other or maybe two of them. Oh I do love my mini horse...sorry

[sarahp]

The only small thing I can add to all this is to say that the first time we used a martingale on my old D, for XC at instructor's advice for safety not a schooling issue, she took exception to this thing going between her front legs and bronced all the way through the car park. Daughter had her long legs clamped round her and was laughing like a drain, perfectly safe, but all the PC mothers (it was a PC event) around were looking horrified. So maybe your C objected to that if she hadn't had anything like that on before - Welsh Cobs can be very sensitive souls.

[angelena]

Thanks, she is very sensitive bless her. Since having her teeth done she is much better.

She's stopping a few yards before the junction on her own accord and standing lovely when we approach it.

I have the Neue Schule Tranz Angled Lozenge on trail hire as from today so will see how she goes in that

[mcdougal]

Have you tried the 'magic bit' from Fylde?
My pony was exactly the same and it really is magic! He is completely different and so happy now!
It is just a straight bar with a port. We have it in a Wilkie as he can be a little strong in just a snaffle for my daughter when jumping and the poll pressure really helps but I think you can get them just with snaffle rings too. We had tried so many different bits and are huge Neue Schule fans but he just didn't like any of them.

[angelena]

If she don't like the Neue Schule I will definitely give it a go. Thanks!