Napping at shows

[supercowpony]

Ok. so not the weekend just gone, but one before took my cobby monster to a show.

There was a lot of waiting around as classes over ran, and it rained intermittently, but the cob doesn't mind weather and there was plenty of grass for him to nibble at while waiting to no real reason for his behaviour.

Right, so I can't really pin point when this started, as the first 2 or 3 shows I took him to, I cannot remember him napping at all. At those shows we did some sj classes, and I think we had poles down at 2, and one refusal which was totally my fault at the other one? Anyway, at the end of last year I did a ODE, which was awful. dressage was fabby, but we got 200 penalties XC, all refusals which were him napping, Then also eliminated in the SJ, as he was napping. We went to the ODE by ourselves, which I think is what caused the nappyness, whereas the other shows we went in a group from our yard? So I thought maybe he felt insecure why he napped? Although I would expect him to be nappier with friends, but anyway!

So I think since then, if we're jumping at a show, he will nap and refuse. We even get the occasional nap in the warm up. When he naps we do a lovely/spin pirouette while doing a bunny hop. We all joke I should paint him grey and send him to the Spanish Riding school. My dilemma is how to stop this?

we have only been to another 2 or maybe 3 shows where we've jumped since then?

1. Can't carry a whip in an arena. hunting/hacking/XC is fine, so wonder if he's had a bad experience in an arena with someone beating him up why it's just in an enclosed space? Very wary of lunging whips too, though worked on that so he doesn't become a sweaty wreck if I lunge him.

2. He is excellent at tucking behind the contact so that I have nothing in my hands. In an ideal world I wouldn't need my hands at all, and sometimes I don't, but if he wants to run out he will ignore all my aids, and in a ring, can't carry a whip. leg on usually means we go faster without regaining any contact, and usually still in the wrong direction. I think he skips out through the shoulder?

3. My riding is not perfect. I know some people who probably wouldn't have an issue with him, but what can I do to correct it? He only does this at shows. he only very occasionally runs out of a fence at home, and usually it's not napping.


heres the video of the BAD BITS of our WH round. we did actually get over some of the fences without issues, though these tended to be going towards the gate. also a little clip of jumping in the warm up where we had NO refusals.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hljajtwjmuc

it has been suggested I ride him in spurs? This may give me better steering, and make him forward when he does put the brakes on, but wonder if it means we'll just end up refusing/napping at higher speeds?

I thought the next few shows I go to, we would just do flat classes, maybe get him more relaxed in a show atmosphere? (and me too ) and do the odd clear round or something?
Some people seem to think it's just a case of getting him out more.
If he ever does anything out hacking, he does the same try to spin and bunny hop thing, but I just get him to stand still, and after a few seconds we carry on in the desired direction. At shows it is not as easy

so. any advice appreciated, or constructive crit of my riding. I know that with a more capable rider this probably wouldn't be an issue. Should I get someone who is more capable to take him and do some jumping? Just hoping we can get him over this, he's got a brill jump and I think could be a rosette machine if he got over his obsession with the gate/lorry/friends.

thank you! have some cookies if you got through that essay. ;D

[sageandonion]

I have had a whole pack of cookies. Well done to you, I thought you did brilliantly with a norty cob using his substantial shoulders. I think he looks very relaxed and knows exactly what he is doing. No I don't think spurs will help, I think he will just rear higher with them and then you might just grip to keep yourself on. I am not going to criticise your riding at all as I would have given up.

I would take him right back to the arena and school him on the flat and I think you could get a nice dressage test out of him. If you do jump, have lessons over poles and small grids.

In the politest way, I would put him on a diet, he would look better for it and you will be able to get your legs right round him then.

[supercowpony]

I already do quite a lot of dressage with him at prelim and novice level. we place consistently (3 5ths and a 3rd) the last 4 times we've been and he does not attempt to nap with me at shows on flat or in dressage, just a jumping thing. (very occasionally he tries it on when we first go into the warm up but settles down right away.)

Hmm. he does look slightly rounder than usual in this video, but I could still feel ribs, even through his winter coat he has in the video. I also have my stirrups very short here, I don't know if that makes him look fatter?
I do keep an eye on him though, but actually usually struggle to keep weight on.

this is a photo from the same day. think this is more true to how he looks in the flesh..

[rightrein92]

Have you tried just a local small clear round or hireing out a course of showjumps at a menage and trying him there if he does the same id just concentrate on grids and poles mayby in a previous home he was over jumped and now hes had enough make it fun for him and you again x

[josel]

Well done you for persisting. I do think spurs would help or one of the short crops.
At that hight you could go in at trot so you have more control.
Keep trying and maybe go round the clear round so you can alter jumps and spend more time in the ring instead of a class and getting thrown out for an elimination.

[rightrein92]

without sounding funny i would have a few lessons with a good instructor you can see 3/4 strides before hes turning out of the jump, i think if you sat deep into the saddle and really used your legs if you were unable to carry a whip he would be more inclined to jump the fence , as it wouldnt be you asking it would be you telling him if you know what i mean spurs would more then likely upset him even more

[supercowpony]

we have hired out arenas before with bsja fences and not had a problem. I have tried going in at a trot and he is inclined to drop further and further behind contact and leg, so less likely to jump.
I can feel the 3/4 strides out when he's going to do it.

However, often putting my leg on harder means he goes forward speed wise, but still runs out through his shoulder. He does not do this in lessons or at home, or at a hired menage. If I take my leg away to give him a real 'pony club kick' he's even worse. When I take me leg away he immediately takes the chance to go in the direction he wants. I've found keeping my leg on quietly, and squeezing much more effective.
If I do try spurs, I will try them at home first to see how he reacts. Would only get the roller ball plastic ones.

thanks for all the input. I definitely think doing some clear round would be good, it will go on the list.

[Kaseyleigh]

He is taking the absolute mick out of you mate you need to get someone on him that can teach him whos boss because he knows he can get away with it im not saying your not but he knows he can take the mick just i have had experience with this kind of horse with kids on them then as soon as i climb aboard they know they carnt take the mick he not scared hes being naughty !

[supercowpony]

ok fair enough.
I am looking at getting an event rider in my village to take him to some shows, and to have an instructor at a show with me. I always ride much better when I have someone shouting at me!

[rightrein92]

"I always ride much better when I have someone shouting at me! "
oh dont we all

[iluvmyponies]

There are a few things that could be causing him napping here...

What are you feeding him? One of mine went through a faze of napping & it turned out to be his feed-don't ask how or why, but as soon as we took him off it he stopped instantly.
It sounds like you jump him quite often, he could be getting bored of it?
If these are ruled out & he is genuinely being naughty I'd work on your jumping at home before jumping at a show. You look a bit nervous on the video, your reins are quite short & you look a bit tense, so you're probably not giving him any confidence without knowing it. Try sitting deep & lengthening your reins a little, so that you're really encouraging him to make a good approach to the jump.
Also, on the video, when he refuses & you circle him away, you are taking him a bit too far away from the jump. My mum always told me not to take them too far as they will have time to 'think' & play up. I was also told that if the jumps are fairly small, jump them from a walk/stand still. If they get into the habit of refusing it is difficult to get them out of the habit, but if you make them jump it without doing any circles they will know you aren't going to let them get away with it.

Hope this has helped, good luck.

[rubydoo]

he is the double of my old cob riley !
go back to flat work and insist on carrying a schooling whip , as he is just being a typical COB .use it only behind your leg to back up your adis and never as a punishment .
id also give a little more with your hands its easy to take hold of the riens on a rearing pony but the worst think u can do.
get them legs on and ride him forwards , you must make it very clear that napping and rearing will not be tollerated .
good luck

[supercowpony]

yep thanks for the advice.
ok will try with the schooling whip! usually if I carry one while doing flatwork I can't put my leg on at all without a total over reaction but guess this is something I should school through.
I would say I am giving with my hands when he rears. each time I push them up his neck, though when he lands after the big one my hands do come back quite quickly.

Don't think it is his feed.. I can't see any correlation between any food changes and his behaviour. Also, he never does it jumping at home.
I usually jump twice a week, usually gymnastic stuff/gridwork. Might do pole work in addition to that occasionally, so don't think he's bored. He gets excited about jumping mostly.

Yes, my nerves are probably not helping too! I have been told by my instructor to ride with short reins but remain very elastic with my elbows/arms as he is not ready for contact on a longer rein? But I appreciate when I am tense I am probably not being elastic enough.

thanks for all the advice. It's really helpful to get a 'fresh' opinion on it.

I'm so used to being shouted at people when I ride that it feels quite odd without anyone doing it lol.

[princessalysx]

I would take him to some local shows and ask if you can go HC, you can take your time, and there isn't any pressure for you. You can pick and choose the jumps you attempt and retry them if he refuses, I would also ask if you can carry a crop and give him a tap just before he runs out to remind him your in charge, and as above try not to turn him too far away when he refuses, do a small circle use loads of leg and send him over it! Good luck!

[Milliesmum]

Do any of the shows near you do working hunter or show jumping clinics? So you can actually have him in the ring with the jumps and an instructor on the ground?

I think a lot of local shows cram so much in on a show day that they probably wouldn't be willing to hold a ring up while you practice.

Oh, and I do tend to agree he is taking the mickey, and I'd be tempted to give him a good smack behind the leg, but only if you know you can sit what follows!!

[supercowpony]

I'll have a look out for show jumping and WH clinics. Now I'm 18, I think I'm going to join my local riding club so we can 'go out' and be with new horses, but still have someone to shout at me!

I'm not so worried about using the crop, or necessarily how he reacts, but carrying one means he becomes over reactive to any leg aids, becoming much stronger even if I intend them as move left/right. He is so worried by me carrying one in an arena, he becomes so over reactive that he actually listens/understands less what exactly I want him to do, thinking it just means faster, faster, faster!
I will try and be a lot firmer with him from now on! I think, at shows, I don't ride positively enough from the beginning. He has to start messing around before I get more forceful with him. Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. I can't wait till summer so I can get out and about and sort him out! I'm going to do much more flat classes and dressage so is more chilled out generally at shows and I am too, and then do some clear round and WH by which time neither of us will have an excuse for bad behaviour or riding!

[LucyHebditch]

Well done, you did well to keep trying

Personally I think he looks over bitted and a little frightened of his mouth, which is maybe why he has started stopping... Have you tried riding in a snaffle?
He is being a naughty boy and has learnt he can constantly run out. I think it may have stemmed from his mouth... Be careful to not catch him in the mouth on landing. His reward for jumping should be lovely soft hands from you This applies to the napping also, when he is going in the direction you are asking make it comfortable and when he isn't make it uncomfortable for him. One last thing, be a little more black and white about where you want him to go as you seem to be turning in every direction. When he naps or runs out, turn him the opposite way to the way he wants to go, don't circle him in his chosen direction as he has won and sucessfully evaded you.
It's all about being very possitive and asertive as well as being very rewarding for them. You just need to get the correct balance and you'll be fine

[supercowpony]

ok thanks. I am riding him in a pelham here, but I try to avoid any contact on the curb rein when jumping. At home I can happily jump in a hanging cheek french link snaffle.
I am working towards jumping in this bit evetually. normally for SJ I'd have him in a wilkie snaffle or similar, but as it was a WH class I had the pelham.

He doesn't feel any different jumping in the pelham to the snaffle or wilkie, aside from at shows being 5x stronger than normal! I do think he gets over excited.
He quite happily takes me forward in all these bits when he wants to, but in any of them he will back off the contact if he wants to evade or run out, which may give the impression he's backing off the bit? I do need to work on soft hands at shows though, my nerves definitely mean I don't ride as softly as I do at home.

Ok, I'll focus on turning in the direction I want, not where he wants.

[FF]

I think it's nerves on both parts. Your nervous that he won't do it, he's nervous cos your nervous and it all goes to pott.
My friends horse is the same so I rescue remedy them both. Tried it at local dressage on the horse as he goes perfect at home but messes up everytime he goes out. Sprayed him with rescue remedy (and the rider) and he did a lovely test.

Also agree with above, DON'T let him turn a circle when he napps. Turn him back the way he came then it he's not getting his own way. Comb spurs may help back your leg up like these ones.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EQUESTRIAN-STAINLESS-STEEL-COMB-SPURS-HORSE-RIDING-NEW-/150669627176?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Equestrian_Clothing_MJ&hash=item23149c0f28
A whip might be worth a try but could make things worse as he seems quite opinionated. He is taking the mick as we can see he can do the jumps easily.
Next time he refuses make him do it from a stand still at that height then he's not getting his own way. You need to get bossy with this lad, growl at him, works on my horse who will ignore leg and whip but if I scream at him to 'GET OVER IT' he does it. lol

Bit wise, the pelham might be a bit much with the chain and everything. My ex racer is VERY strong when jumping so I ride him in a pelham just for jumping, instructor said to also try a grackle noseband so I did for our XC schooling and he totally backed off and I couldn't get him over a jump. Instructor took the chain off and off we went.
Also for workers you could use pelham roundings instead of two reins so you have less tack in your hands.
Hope some of this helps
Well done for keeping going but he definately knows you won't make him do it, get tough with him!!

[eskvalleystud]

I think you are brave to have sat to his naughty little half rears

He is picking up on your nerves and although it may appear he is taking the mickey when you are positive and riding forwards and not holding on to his mouth in to a fence he is willing to jump, if he was a real bugger he would be refusing every single attempt to jump, I think you need to get him in a nice mild bit, even for doing WH classes, get a good instructor and go back to basics so you start to develop the tools that you will need when you may feel under pressure/tense in a class
think you have a really nice jumper in the making and with lots of practise and guidance you will go far!

[brookviewequine]

that darn horse is defo taking the mick. He can do it and so can you.
you need to go back to basics. Ground work!!
these forums are all well and good but you ll get so many different ideas/opinions.
totally agree with esk valley.
get a good instructor... and not "a mate" who "thinks" they know wat theyre doing

[supercowpony]

ok, thanks for all the advice.

I know it's not the jumping or bit that is an issue here, the reason he refuses some and not others is because some are going away from the gate, and others towards it. I ride in a snaffle at home, and do ride in a snaffle sjing sometimes. The only difference the bit makes at a competition is how well we respects my half halts. He is always forward going, but is much more responsive at home.

I'll definitely work on getting him to jump from a stand still and that sort of thing at home, so when I get to a show he'll know stopping isn't an option.

Hopefully soon I'll have a show report with him going nicely after all the advice and more input from my instructor etc.

[lulah]

aww i really felt for you when he took a while to get over the first part of the double then when he did , refused the second!!!

i think a few of the jumps you didnt ride "strong " enough into them.

i agree with the bit, i know a lot of ponies that back off in pehams. esp as you ride in something diffrent at home.
although hes forward going i think you need more legs. esp when you feel him start to nap really place outdside leg on.
as someone else mentioned- when he naps dont let him turn the circle he wants to go in.

overall very good riding and very handsome chap!!!
the amount of patience you have im sure you will get thier.

[supercowpony]

thanks so much! I won't be giving up on him, that's for sure. He's my forever horse.
I have jumped him at home in the pelham before, but do mainly stick to the snaffle. Next time I go 'out' to jump I'll take him in the snaffle though.

[choppytrotty]

Recently my pony has been napping, couldn't get home anywhere NEAR the ring the other day, it really is not like him. He is normally aching to go into the ring, but he just woke up thinking g' I don't wanna do this ' . He is alright now, I think it's a phase.

I saw in the video that when you landed, you gave him a bit of the pull in the mouth, a good pony club kick 'll do, when you land lean forward, then sit up and kick on!

[leisurelakes1]

I agree with Brookview equine find a good instrustoe and ask them to accompany you to working hunter/clear round training days and shows and keep taking him to places where he has to mingle with lots of strange horses and leave his friends at the wagon, perseverence and patience are easier to advise than carry through but i think your riding him quite well and could just do with some positive input from someone you trust I had a fell mare that I had an horrendous first season with but these days i would describe as an angel(13 yrs on lol)Good luck with him, sure you'll be brilliant x x

[fruity]

There's a lot of good advice and considerations here. You've done really well to keep perservering and will get there. He's a smasher and I'm sure it'll come good.

I do agree however that he is taking the pee (sorry) - he is quite happy in himself, more than capable and def not scared! He needs to be told he's not allowed to have an opinion. Get a good trainer on the ground to help you.

Some thoughts watching the film and going back to my affiliated SJ days.... I'd agree he's over bitted, so if you can ride him in something lighter, then do. He is backing off 5/6 strides out (i noticed a sideways duck and dive aproach a few times) so try and keep him going forward and more positively between leg and hand. If he's a little whip shy, try a short stubby SJ whip - just gives you something to say oi with.

It also looks as though maybe you are dropping him a stride or two out, kept on nudging right to take off so he knows you're there. Upon landing ride forward and get going, be thinking about the next fence whilst you're in the air so when you land you're looking and going.

Not inclined to agree with spurs yet. When he naps and rears like that, firm consistent leg and push with your seat, don't let him go backwards (i know this is easier said than done and I've recently had a similar battle with my 17.2 baby, so I feel your pain :-) he got a lunge whip up his bum eventually!!)

Grid work at home and make it fun. Don't do too much, keep it reasonably small and if you can jump out of the arena, do. Keep him thinking and interested - build a multiple approach grid, and only jump it a few times in each direction - we had to do this alot with our babies to keep them focussed.

Good luck, keep us posted

[supercowpony]

thanks very much for all that advice fruity.
I definitely know that I can be too 'soft' especially at shows. I will let you all know how our next outing goes!
from the advice on here and instructors and other horsey people I feel much more confident now he is just taking the pee. I think he's got to that age! he's turning 8, last year he was pretty much an angel as we'd just got the hang of each other and I felt like he 'checked in' with me much more often. Now he think's he knows what he's doing, or what he wants to do and is being too opinionated!

thanks again for the advice.

[stumpedmum]

hi...sorry if some of this has been said, but I haven't had chance to read through all of the replies...

firstly, well done for keeping calm and carrying on, without outwardly appearing flustered or losing your temper. Its not easy when you know you have an audience, and this is something you should keep with you. Now, how nervous were you? This can translate down the reins very quickly.

I would advise you look at his bit. A pelham is not a favourite to jump in and it may be too much.

You asked for constructive criticisms, so please take this with the good intentions it is meant....when you are coming into a fence, you are beginning to fold forwards a good few strides too early ( known as "dropping" and my worst habit when I was younger for a long time!) this effectively gives him much more freedom to make his own decision about wether he wants to jump or not.

A good instructor will be able to help you with this, but a starting point is being able to judge their stride every time. Being able to shout ( in your head ) 3.2.1.takeoff you will have more knowledge of when to "give" forwards. An old instructor had me counting down from 7 to perfect this. You can practice over a pole at home, coming into the pole at different lengths of stride so you really get to know his striding. Also, practice over small cross poles, coming into the fence sitting deep, and slightly back and giving with the arms. Once you have mastered the feeling of coming into the fence sitting straight, you can then work on giving at the right moment. You will be amazed how much sitting up into a fence helps with run outs and refusals!!

Lastly...you look to be a bit hesitant with your leg on approach. At other times in the vid, you use your leg well and strong, but in front of a fence you seem to just give the occasional, and rather gentle, tap.

I say this as your cob seems to be taking the Michael, if you can't carry a whip in a ring with him, I would become much, MUCH firmer with my leg on approach. Again, sitting up will aid your use of leg as you will not be using it to balance. When you are cantering, let your legs hang loose and feel the natural rhythm they will bounce against his sides with. Now, keeping this rhythm, add your own power to the swing. I call it tick - tocking. In front of the fence, don't be afraid to get bossy with your leg, be firm. You still see some top SJ riders at time using the good, old fashioned "pony club kick" if a horse backs off. Once you have sitting up and getting your leg strong, you may find he gives up trying to mess about all together.

Hope this is of some help, keep going and good luck!!

PS...watch SJ vids of the best on youtube, and study their riding. You can learn a lot from watching.

[supercowpony]

Thanks for all that stumpedmum!

in this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV5NfmnDx9o&feature=relmfu

do people think I'm still dropping him a few strides out? I'm sorry about my hands in this one, they're awful and not soft at all. my only (inadequate) excuse is we hadn't jumped for a while, so I wasn't giving enough and he wanted to go much faster! haha.