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Post by Sologirl on May 30, 2012 9:43:02 GMT
Tobehonest a lot of people don't like snaffles as they aren't the best bits inthevworld ad lets face it the bit world has moved onedith mouth shapes. I understand the point made about properly broken.
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Post by dancer on May 30, 2012 11:32:19 GMT
Sorry if this has already been raised as I haven't read all of the posts - at a show on Sunday the judge moved all the LR ponies with Wilkies down the line as he didn't like them (it didn't apply to use as we don't use them) but as it was pointed out to me later, the show was run under NPS rules & NPS allow Wilkies so should the judge have penalised ponies using a 'legal' bit ?
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Post by fruity on May 30, 2012 11:56:53 GMT
er, explain that one to me milliesmum?!!
.... how is your head incidentally?!!
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Milliesmum
H G Addict
COCKERP00S RULE!!!
Posts: 23,901
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Post by Milliesmum on May 30, 2012 13:00:54 GMT
er, explain that one to me milliesmum?!! .... how is your head incidentally?!! Sore from too much contact with brick walls! |
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Post by lisadundee on May 30, 2012 13:06:46 GMT
I think it totally depends on the shape of the horses mouth as to what bit they are happy in! I don't agree that if any horse has been mouthed and broken well it will happily go in a snaffle! My stallion was mouthed lovely but absolutely hated jointed bits!
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Post by vikki85 on May 30, 2012 13:11:43 GMT
I think it totally depends on the shape of the horses mouth as to what bit they are happy in! I don't agree that of any horse has been mouth and broken well it will happily go in a snaffle! My stallion was mouthed lovely but absolutely hated jointed bits! I agree with you lisadundee, my pony was backed and trained correctly and does go reasonably well in a snaffle, however she has never softened her jaw completely in a snaffle and so goes better in pelham with a nice soft elastic curb chain |
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Post by lisadundee on May 30, 2012 13:24:48 GMT
I also wrap all my bits in rubber latex bit wrap, they love it and ive found them much softer in my hand!
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Post by Was there on May 30, 2012 15:49:00 GMT
Sorry if this has already been raised as I haven't read all of the posts - at a show on Sunday the judge moved all the LR ponies with Wilkies down the line as he didn't like them (it didn't apply to use as we don't use them) but as it was pointed out to me later, the show was run under NPS rules & NPS allow Wilkies so should the judge have penalised ponies using a 'legal' bit ? I am sure that what the Judge actually said was that some of the ponies were very unhappy in wilkies, because little hands cant control a gag properly. I dont think he penalised anybody, it was just meant to be a helpful comment. |
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on May 30, 2012 17:29:37 GMT
lisadundee - the term snaffle refers to the action of the bit and not to any individual mouthpiece - you can get straight bar snaffles as well as single and double jointed and the various lozenges, rollers etc., and made of many different materials. But the rein action should be direct to the bit with no gag, poll or curb actions, that's what defines a snaffle.
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Post by gooogle on May 30, 2012 20:56:00 GMT
well said sarahp ! A snaffle refers to the attachment to the bridle and reins rather than the mouthpiece. I believe many ponies broken by adults however well done have inadvertantly had stronger aids used than a child under twelve can physically carry out. Especially seat aids, a competent adult can easily stop a small well schooled pony with these alone! The net result is that the child needs a brake upgrade to counteract this. The term "riding light" has never been more appropriate than when breaking and schooling LR's and FR's. I never sit deep ( unless they are trying to offload you! ) and ride with as soft a contact as possible consciously thinking childs pony, childs pony! It may take an extra week or two but the dividends are huge. I try from a choice of french link, single jointed, rubber or nylon straight bar, fulmer style all in either eggbutt or loose ring type and I have never needed any other type in 25 yrs! The two rein thing is cosmetic for open classes! We see the advance dressage horses and are "programmed" to see the two reins as a pinacle of schooling whether true or not IMO.Again I have used ordinary pelham ( sometimes rubber mouthed )or double bridle and never needed anything else. For the record I have hunted with more than one pack on and off again for 25 years and the majority of the fields are in snaffles. You can't have a f*g and a swig from a hip flask at the same time with two sets of reins in the driving rain again IMO! I don't mark ponies down directly but in a tie of marks the bit is often the decider for me with the milder option prefered. Perhaps the answer is " handicaps" with the more severe bits allowed but with fixed penalties for use applied to the score sheets during conformation judging by the stewards! No pencil marking either in fact would like to see hand held gizmos like posties and couriers use, with the marks going straight to secretaries tents and the results returned to the ring for the judges to announce. Our entries are online, so why not the marks? New thread on route I think  |
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Post by Dipsy on May 30, 2012 21:17:11 GMT
I think you should be able to use any bit that the horse is comfortable in.....surely the horses comfort is the priority. So if the horse goes better in a snaffle then ride in a snaffle....
However I won't ride mine in the show in a snaffle as last time I did, it was a suicide mission, he was virtually uncontrollable and was almost playing pony skittles with the ponies in front of me. So I've vowed never to do another novice class on him or to just put him in the ring in a snaffle.
He is very happy with the tom thumb pelham, and I have a snaffle and an elevator version that he gets the same mouth piece regardless of what bit he is in
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krw
Full Member
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Post by krw on Jun 2, 2012 21:34:16 GMT
I have a conni that won't go in anything but a snaffle. I have tried everything, pelhams make him go bridle lame and he doesn't have enough room in this mouth for a double. I have tried every type of pelham you could think of , I even stopped showing him for a few years as I couldn't find anything for him to go in. This year he is entered for most of the hoys classes and will be going in the ring in his snaffle, he should be judged on his peformance and conformation not what bit he has in his mouth.
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Post by hollycane on Jun 2, 2012 21:51:59 GMT
One would hope that the judge would actually be able to tell the difference between an animal "going beautifully in a snaffle" and in a double/pelham. There is a often a huge difference in opinion here between the judge and the competitor. An animal that accepts and goes well in a double or a pelham is demonstrating a high level of both schooling and manners. The level of refinement that can be achieved in a double bridle exceeds that of a simple snaffle. It's a fine line but can be seen and felt by the knowledgeable.
I hate bits being used as a short cut to "getting it's head down", the modern obsession. I always make my feelings known to the competitor in a diplomatic way. There is a massive difference in a well schooled animal going beautifully in a double bridle and a poorly schooled animal going lime a drain in a wilkie/weymouth.swales. Unfortunately most riders nowadays don't seem to be able to either see that or accept it.
I will mark animals down if they are going poorly in sharp bits. I tell the competitor. I get brickbats. Nice job judging........
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Post by watchbank on Jun 3, 2012 21:33:03 GMT
my pony goes beautifully in a snaffle and when we have to progess into a 'double' i will be using a pelham and not a double bitted bridle
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Post by flo1 on Jun 4, 2012 16:04:24 GMT
All this discussion regarding the harshness of some bits...it's the hands on the other end of the reins that causes any bit to be harsh...snaffles included.
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Post by welshiegirl on Jun 4, 2012 16:55:13 GMT
Just commenting but I don't know much about bits, just in general.
I ride my B at home and in Novices in a Wilki snaffle. He's always been in this and goes well, but for any other class it's a Pelham for me.
In regard for novices- snaffles and opens-wilki's,
I agree that the Pelham&/or double may be seen as an 'Advance' In schooling. At a show with my boy I will typically do a normal basis of classes -Novice, Open, M&M small and Concours. For everything but the novice he's in his Pelham as it does keep the contact there and lets me focus on everything else, forwardness, transitions better and everything.
But I can see other people's points. If i were ever to be a judge, in an Open class I'd mark a pony in a snaffle up (if it did a good enough show, of course) for the fact that in an Open class they've gone in in a snaffle.. Yet I'd never do that myself!
Agree, It's the Hands on the reins rather than the bit.. You could have the 'nicest' bit in, yet you could have a rider who rags the pony like there's no tomorrow...
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Post by Molar on Jun 4, 2012 17:06:35 GMT
The rule is that a pony that goes correctly in a snaffle should cope well in a double bridle. The problem today is may riders have poor hands and aren't taught how to use a double bridle. Instead they have no idea how to use double reins or opt for pelhams and severe curb bits as as means of "grabbing" and control. Hate seeing the present combination of wilkies used with swales!!!! No wonder ponies are going round overbent with theit chins on their chests and charging in trot. Until judges see through this and dump those going incortrectly the educated jockey and pony will be the losers. In the past the Tom Thumb was a very short cheeked weymouth biut used with a mild bridoon as a double bridle set on well schooled ponies. How times have changed if these are now being used alone.
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NJW
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Putwell Comet Bach
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Post by NJW on Jun 7, 2012 19:08:35 GMT
I found this thread really interesting. I have a young welsh section D who I broke and school myself. He goes perfectly in a snaffle ( but then again i believe he would go the same in any bit as I ride him from my legs and seat rather than heavy with my hands!) I have had judges comment on ' how nice it is to see a cob go so well in a snaffle' and at the same time I have had judges put me down the line as they 'would prefer to see him in 2 reins'. Like anything to do with showing, the end result has a lot to do with judges preference. I have him entered for the royal welsh gelding class which is an open class because unfortunately there is no novice class so I have decided to put him in a Pelham....
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