Building up necks

[mandmponies56]

Our show pony is part bred arab so naturally does not have a great deal of neck.
Just wondered if anyone has any ideas of how to build it up. She is currently ridden in a martingale, lunged with side reins (not too tight) and strapped every day at the base of her neck.
Any help is much appreciated.

[elmere]

Well I presume you are using the martingale as a back up incase horse is strong? Strapping is great but I would swap the side reins for a different training aid, they will only strap its head in rather than making it work correctly, I would use a pessoa but there are other options. Also what are you feeding him?

[mandmponies56]

I tried the pessoa but she seems to panic a bit and I don't want to upset her too much, or get that she associates being exercised with panic. At the moment she is on high fibre chaff and some copra meal. I don't real want to feed her anything that will 'fizz' her up as, being part bred arab, she is already quite 'full of beans'.
Your advice is very much appreciated.

[elmere]

I would be feeding her a balancer or a feed high in protein to support muscle growth, did she panic in the pessoa because of it being around her legs?

[mandmponies56]

I think she didn't like it round the back of her legs. Thank you I will try that, not too sure how all these producers seem to manage huuge necks on such young ponies. It is difficult to compete in novice classes with ponies that do not even look like novices.

[elmere]

Well I also have a de gogue which doesn't go around their legs, I would try one of those, you can also ride in it if you wish attached to an extra specialised rein.

[armada]

I would ditch the side reins, I only use them for the first week or two they start lunging, just as a guide, as i do allow them to totter round for a while whilst they find their feet and learn what is expected but they do tend to lean on them too much for support, I move onto a chambon quickly, they cant lean on that and it teaches the idea of self carriage.
When they are happy in that, instead of moving onto the pessoa (as they are expensive, so I dont own one), I tie an exercise bandage on each side of the roller, under the tail, and above the hock in the same position as the same part of a pessoa would lie, but it is independent of the rest of the kit. With that behind, and the chambon in front, driving them forward with the lunge whip low under the hock, it does, if you have a decent command of lunge etiquette achieve pretty much the same effect.
A bungee is also very effective as is not fixed, they have to find their medium within it, and work with rather than against, so does encourage a more correct outline without force, merely suggestion.
I have a de-gogue, but find it is more of a 'fixed' piece of kit than the chambon, and I honestly dont find it satisfactory, I have'nt used it for years.
We have PBA's and both (as opposed to 3, we lost one) have all been worked the same, and have lovely strong muscled necks, not over crested, but nice solid muscular necks. Time and correct work is they key.

[elmere]

Well as far as Im aware the chambon and the de gogue are basically the same thing with the later having the option to ride in, you can get the cheaper versions of the pessoa for around £35 that work the same. Only one Ive never used is the bungee but it seems a keen favourite and also doesn't go around the legs so maybe worth a try.

[sarahp]

The only one I'd use is a bungee in normal circumstances, I like it because it is not fixed as armada says. The rest is down to your lunging technique. The only exception would be for a horse that comes to me with a major problem in way of going. And they do need a supply of good quality protein as this is the building blocks for putting on muscle.

[vcl]

The bungee and also the harbridge are good tools for teaching them to take the contact forward and down which will build the neck and back muscles. I have an anglo (3/4 arab) and i've never had a problem with building neck muscle so i disagree that its breed specific having a weedy neck. Correct work and feed programme is the key. Maybe feed hay off the floor and hang feed buckets. Small things that will help make a little difference along with the aforementioned

[armada]

Jul 19, 2012 21:41:09 GMT elmere said:

Well as far as Im aware the chambon and the de gogue are basically the same thing with the later having the option to ride in, you can get the cheaper versions of the pessoa for around £35 that work the same. Only one Ive never used is the bungee but it seems a keen favourite and also doesn't go around the legs so maybe worth a try.

The pully's on the chambon clip to the bit rings, with the de-gogue they go through the bit ring and attach to a ring coming from the breast strap when lunging, so are different.
The de-gogue in my opinion by working this way fixes the head more, hence why I'm not mad on it.

[lulah]

i agree with what the others have said get her on a good protein diet and ditch the side reins because it will fix her in a false outline.
i use a pessoa because my pony works well in it, but have also had good results from a bungee.

[Kaseyleigh]

My advice would be feed from a door bucket, I would feed a ready grass, soft and soak solution mash or build and shine I know that works wonders but is expensive you don't want to feed a young horse to much protien as can cause problems. To get a better neck I would do pole work asking the horse to come long and low and also riding the correct way will build this pony up I have a 4yrs old traditional who is looking like a 6yrs old but it all depends on the age and how mature they are.

[sarahp]

Protein does NOT cause any problems, many quote fizziness or laminitis but neither are the case. Excess protein over requirements will be metabolised into energy and used that way. It's starch and sugar that should be avoided, protein is essential for correct growth.

[GinaGeo]

I agree with Sarahp regarding protein. Protein is essential for the majority of processes in the body, starch and sugar are not and it's these that should be kept to a minimum.

[mandmponies56]

Thank you for all your advice. I think she is quite a late maturer, but I will feed her more protein, try different schooling exercises and see how she goes.
Thanks again.

[nici]

Swap your chaff for alfa oil and feed a good quality cereal free balancer. If my biology lessons centuries ago were right, the body can't make protein but has to consume it. So your pony can't build muscle unless you feed quality protein.

[sarahp]

I think they can make some of the essential aminoacids, but not all, some must be supplied in the diet.

Funny how incorrect statements disappear when people correct them isn't it?

[nici]

Jul 24, 2012 21:53:18 GMT sarahp said:

Funny how incorrect statements disappear when people correct them isn't it?

;D

I shall leave mine and blame my biology teacher It's educational to learn from mistakes and corrections (provided the corrections come from someone knowledgeable of course!)

[dancer]

Which 'protein' feeds do you all use?

[GinaGeo]

I feed Micronized Linseed. It's more readily digested than Linseed in the oil form and Linseed contains the best balance of Omega 3 and Omega 2.

[Kaseyleigh]

Jul 24, 2012 21:53:18 GMT sarahp said:

I think they can make some of the essential aminoacids, but not all, some must be supplied in the diet.

Funny how incorrect statements disappear when people correct them isn't it?

Is this a pop at me


AND to much protein in a young horses diet can cause health problems

Unlike fats and carbohydrates, horses do not store protein for later use. Excess protein metabolism results in the buildup of nitrogen end-products, such as ammonia and urea. A diet containing excess protein will increase the horse’s water requirements and urine output as the ammonia and urea are flushed out of the body. Exposure to this strong urine can cause lung irritation and other airway problems.

so please tell me im wrong and try and be b**chy!

[melly91]

Sounds silly but feeding hay on the floor instead of in nets can help to build necks, sounds silly but it dose make them use there neck muscles

[Kaseyleigh]

Love the fact after me putting that true statement about protein no has said anything !

[GinaGeo]

I don't really understand that with any excess protein being excreted what the problem is? It doesn't cause any toxicities to the system.

I want my horses to drink plenty of water - they get free access to water so can drink as and when they like and are not exposed to any harmful fumes as they don't live in.

There are some forms of proteins that are not well digested by horses and cannot be used, these should be avoided. It should be noted that most protein rich feeds are fed in small quantities and a huge amount would be required to overload the system.

I've looked up the recommended daily amount of protein that should be fed in a horses diet and it's roughly 8-10% per day for the average mature horse (more for younsgters 12-14%) of the total consumed food.

So for a 500kg horse eating 2% of it's bodyweight a day, it would require 900g of protein per day. Without analysing the forage you wouldn't know exactly how much your horse was getting from its hay and grass. But the Horsehage timothy contains 8%, which is what my grass and hay is so if that made up say 1.9% of the diet- 9.5kg /day - that's only 760g/day it's supplying. I'd need to supplement a further 140g/day in order to supply the body with all of the essential amino acid it required for building cells, for muscle, hoof, hair etc etc.

So if I fed an average balancer, I'll use Spillers Original as the example that's 25% protein, so at the recommended level of 100g/100kg of bodyweight I'd be supplementing a further 125g. Still short of 900g and another supplement should be added to provide this, I choose Micronized linseed. Which in this case I'd feed 75g of Micronised Linseed which would provide 15g of protein and the horse would be getting it's reccomended daily amount.

My horses all get less than 2% of their bodyweight per day in hay/grass and they get fed a balancer with less protein than the one I mentioned, thus I supplement Linseed and Speedi-beet also so they get enough. My youngster gets more as he's growing.

Of course my calculations are rough guestimates, but I'm not in any danger of overloading my horses systems any time soon.

[sarah14]

Baileys number 4 enough said!

[nici]

Jul 25, 2012 9:48:35 GMT dancer said:

Which 'protein' feeds do you all use?

We feed a balancer (TS Lite) and alfa oil.

[dappledgreypony]

We had the same problem with our young horse. We've persisted with the pessoa & lunging & work every day to give more muscle all over. In regards to the bungee, we were told not to use it on a young horse as it gives an artificial head position. We feed him calm & condition mix by dodson & horrel, soaked for 10 mins then in with his daily feed & it really is giving him better condition & helping him muscle up. Takes a while to work but we've had him 1 month, been feeding him C&C all the while & worked everyday & a definite improvement!

[shellywell]

Just a few points that have worried me - mainly YES WE HAVE to FEED the ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS the horse DOES NOT MAKE ALL THAT HE NEEDS - he makes the non-essential.

Protein is made up of amino acids and its these amino acids that our nags need, not the protein, to produce the muscle, enzymes and hormones.

So, yep the horses body does make amino acids but NOT the essential ones, so we need to feed these.
From memory there are 10 that need to be fed, however I can only remember the important 3 - lysine, methionine, threonine, these must be fed so check your bas/minerals etc etc and don't take it for granted that your horse will make them, these ARE not made, they MUST be fed and they are ESSENTIAL, for growth, hormones, and those digestive enzymes. I think that if these are fed in sufficient quantities then the other 7 can be made from them....but check, DO NOT take my word for it.....this is why I feed a balancer :-)

Introducing a pessoa to a horse takes skill, and nerve!! If your mare wears a rug then she is probably objecting to being strapped in, (as she is already used to something flapping about her).
If it helps, this is how I do it: Place passoa on the horse, allow the back fluffy part to come around the bottom ADJUST the height so it sits a couple of inches above the hock and won't interfere with her moving her hocks, then I tie up the rest in easy release knots, clipping the clips to the roller so it is all safe. I allow the horse to go out on the lunge and have a trot - I stop them if they begin to rush. I will then conect the side reins NOT passoa, but seperate sode reins. This gives the horse the idea that they have to work with something flapping behind them. Once they have doen this for a few days (flighty horse) then I loosen all the ropes to their maximum - if I have a larger horse then I add a dog lead between the front legs to extend the straps, and I then connect them up. The passoa should never be tight anyway, it works by giving the horse the idea of how to work. Problems to look out for are lateral stiffness - continue to work in hand/ridden in between sessions to avoid this. Slow work in the passoa (slow long, low trot) will build her up, but it will be hard work so don't overdo it, 10 minute sessions will be ample. You will have to provide her with some feed to turn into muscle though, even if it is just a balancer, alfa a and sugar beet.

[sarahp]

I've been away, just catching up now.

XS protein can cause no harm whatsoever to a normal, healthy horse, which is what I thought we were talking about, it will just be excreted as said above. For veterans or those with health issues, the vet will sometimes advise low protein diets but this is a vet matter, not for normal circumstances. Young horses, on the other hand, will suffer growth issues, ranging from severe to less than ideal, if the essential aminoacids are not supplied in the diet, and if in doubt a balancer is an ideal way of making sure. Luckily for them, there is a capacity for compensatory growth so that those deprived can make up the shortfall in growth if it is later supplied. I once bought an in foal 3yo A mare, because I couldn't bear to leave her where she was, and her backbone stuck up like a rescue pony although the condition score overall was not as bad as that sounds - she just no apparent actual muscle anywhere. I fed her at the same scale as my weaned foals - this was I think Feb - and she put on muscle and had a normal healthy foal to boot, apart from a heavy burden of ascarids that is. Nasty things, never seen them before but boy did I when I wormed this foal!