Bit advice

[ashleigh19]

Hi I am needing some advice on a bit for my girl please. Ok so she is a 6 year old part bred trotter. When I got her she done nothing but pace and I had lots of trouble with direction so someone suggested a tom thumb to start with. She was going ok in this but I wanted to progress and starting asking her to work correctly so someone suggested a wilkie snaffle with the one joint in the middle...I know now that this gives a lot of poll pressure but at the begining she was going much better in it but then she just starting getting really strong and leaning right down. So I said it must be giving her too much so I changed to a fixed eggbutt snaffle...she wasnt happy so someone suggested a loose ring snaffle with a lozenge but still no happier...shes just either going over bent and being stong and leaning or Shes going round with her head up and her neck tense and back hollow....any suggestions please would be greatfull

[Kaseyleigh]

I would try a KK Ultra loose ring lozenge with a roller in the middle allows them to soften and play with the bit so she think about what she is doing.

[ashleigh19]

Where would I get one of those....Ive heard good things about bit bank? x

[Kaseyleigh]

eBay cheaper on there they are expensive but work wonders !

[ashleigh19]

Thanks very much I will have a look x

[GinaGeo]

I think you're having a schooling/training issue as opposed to a bitting issue. Your mare was a pacer so she needs totally re-educating to use different muscle groups in ways that will be totally alien to her. I would suggest you seek the help of a qualified instructor to help you with the process.

Niether a Tom Thumb or a Wilkie will have helped your mare in the long run - as you've found out.

If she were mine, I'd use a loose ring lozenge snaffle and start from scratch, re-mouthe her, long line her and then get back on board all the while teaching her to accept a contact.

Having her checked over physically would be the very first starting place; teeth, back, saddle fit etc etc...

[sageandonion]

Really think you need to get a good instructor in and go from there. As you have found out, you will get lots of conflicting advice and inadvertently cause other problems. What you describe is so typical of the damage a wilkie can cause, that's why I hate it, hate it, hate it, but so many people use them and will advise others to do so.

You will save time, money and worry by investing in a qualified instructor.

[ashleigh19]

She's had her teeth and back checked although I am waiting on michael Davies to come and re fit her for a new saddle. I have started from scratch with her and she's come a long way it's only recently since having lessons that she seems unhappy accepting the contact so I am trying a different approach with her lots of flexsions, transitions etc off a new instructor. I have just tried her In a loose ring snaffle with lozenge which was quite thick and copper as this is meant to be less harsh and make them want to play more? But she didn't like that much. She got quite a small mouth but I think sticking something harsher in her mouth will surely only make her stronger less accepting etc?

[sageandonion]

Have her teeth actually been done and not just checked? Speak to a qualified dentist and ask about the conformation of her mouth. She may need a thinner loose ring if she has a small mouth.

You will find that all the contact issues are to do with schooling and you will need help from the ground. It will take quite some time so you must be patient.

Did you have her vetted?

[ashleigh19]

Yes I have had her teeth done in may for the second time. Used Chris lee he said her teeth were good just a few sharp edges. What to expect for her age, but he said she does only have a small bridge we're the bit sits...i understand it's a schooling issue but something must be causing this if all of a sudden shes become so strong? she was coming on nicely you see she was accepting the contact which is why I am confused hence why I am speaking advice lol....I didn't have her vetted No but I was hasty. I got all checks do e before starting to re back get and all was ok......I need someone who's qualified and who's worked with pacers before...?

[fruity]

I went through a transitional pahse with my hunter where he leant on anything after a good week in it. We work him between a snaffle, a waterford and a running gag, scholling in the menage and field, and hacking

He's 7 and he appeared to be trying the work the bits out; once he did he would lean and if I gave him something to lean on it escalated - I fix my left arm, so my instructor would be on my case the minute she saw me stiffen. I was 100x worse schooling alone. We too did transitions, give and re-take inside rein, inside leg to outside hand - alot! - and it has now after a good 4months come. He is a 17.3 HWT Hunter, with a big shoulder and naturally on the forehand, but he now delightfully light in the hand.

Persevere, its probably a phase and with a good instructor you will come out the other side. Good luck

[sageandonion]

Yes you should make absolutely certain the instructor is qualified and I would look for a BHSI as you unlikely to find someone experienced with pacers in particular. A more qualified person is just likely to have more practical experience and have worked with many different types of horse.

It is impossible to say what has caused her to suddenly become strong. You have ruled out physical issues but only an instructor can tell whether it is her, how you are riding her or more likely a bit of both.

[ashleigh19]

Oh I dont believe its all her fault...There will be something that I am doing as well which is contributing to this...for example I know I lean slightly right etc...Can anyone suggest an instructor in north west? Dont get my wrong I know there are a lot of good instructors out there.....Gina Geo I might sound thick but what do you mean by re mouthing her?

[GinaGeo]

There are various ways to "mouthe" a horse. Personally, I'd get myself a key bit and pop it in her mouth. It will encourage her to have a good chomp and mouthe on it. I'd leave it in, supervised, whilst she's in her stable for upto about 45mins, you'd build up to this over a period of time. I'd do this each day for about a week, as I would if I were starting something from scratch.

I'd then attach some reins and whilst standing next to her, take up a light contact, asking her to flex, firstly her neck in each direction to teach her the action of the bit. When her jaw softens you give. I'd then pop some loose side reins on, in readiness for long lining and lunging, so she understands their meaning. Not for long periods of time though, max of ten minutes.

Next I'd start Long lining her, I use loose side reins, to allow a consistent contact to develop. The lines are "legs" and are used to push her up into the contact. I'd get her out and about "schooling" and hacking in them. Everything you can do on board you can do with Long lines, and it allows you to work them, without having to worry about how you as a rider are affecting them.

For her, being older, lunging would be valuable to re-educate provided it's done sympathetically. Again I'd use looseish ( but doing something) side reins, so she's working into the contact. Use lots of transitions and spiralling her in and out on the circle, all the time concentrating on improving her way of going.

Once that's all done, you should have a horse that understands the bit and what is meant by it and also knows to work into it, from back to front. Once you're on board you have replicate this, ensuring that you're influencing her positively and are encouraging, and allowing her to use herself correctly.

An Instructor to advise is invaluable throughout and will be able to give you feedback and answer any queries you have.

My older horse had to go through this process due to being broken incorrectly before we bought him and having no understanding of using himself correctly. It was time consuming, but is well worth the effort in the long run

[ashleigh19]

That's great advice. She does lunge but never long lined her, intact never done it before....I do have a brief understanding but could you just enlighten me to the do's and dont's. Would you suggest putting a post on here to find someone to help us?

[GinaGeo]

I would certainly get an Instructor in to show you how. I was lucky in that my older horse was Long lined by my Instructor in the re-starting process; so when I decided to give it a go, one of us already knew what to do! I did teach my youngster myself with my instructor supervising, to ensure I didn't make any serious errors!

You'll need a roller/saddle, side reins, hat, gloves and of course long lines. I started off introducing the Long Lines in the stable, put them on and get them used to the lines being round them, once that's accepted. In the school, start them off facing a corner so they can't run anywhere. You will then walk behind them at a sensible distance, line in each hand. I keep the lines fairly slack, with them working into the side reins, if they don't accept the contact too readily you can give very gentle reminders with the lines, on long reins, all hand movements are much bigger though, so keep it light.

You could put a post on here, asking for reccomendations for a local instructor to help you. I'm not in your area so couldn't help you in that respect.

Good Luck

[ashleigh19]

Yeh I wouldn't attempt anything i was unsure of without some help god it could only make things worse. Thanks for help