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Post by sophiabell on Sept 15, 2012 17:48:40 GMT
My youngster went away for 4 months to be broken and schooled and came home lovely, due to lack of time and nerves, however, she has done very little since.
She used to do a funny buck when going into canter which she seems to have got over, but now she puts her head up leaving me with little control and does nothing for my nerves.
I know I know I can't expect great things from a 4 year old who gets ridden maybe once a week if she is lucky but any tips on how to get her head down and her listening to me, rather than being so interested in things going on around her, would be much appreciated as I want to make sure that when I do get round to schooling her more it is done properly.
Cheers!!!
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Post by sophiabell on Sept 15, 2012 17:51:07 GMT
Just to add, I don't want to use anything along the lines of draw reins etc..
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Post by sometime on Sept 15, 2012 18:43:33 GMT
Sadly only work and consistently at that a few lessons to get you on the right track and at least three time a week schooling and hacking
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Post by ilovenatives on Sept 15, 2012 19:06:16 GMT
As long as you are sure its not a pain issue (back/saddle/teeth etc ) you could use a running martingale . It will only come into play if she puts her head up . Also as has been suggested above a few lessons would probably help your nerves . My daughters sec A lead rein took a while to get going off the lead and when she did she learnt she could shove her head up and tank off . We still have her in a snaffle but also a running martingale that stops her shoving her head up . Good Luck  |
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Post by sophiabell on Sept 15, 2012 20:02:09 GMT
I have someone coming to have another look at her back tomorrow, she had it done a few weeks ago where the person said she was tight in her shoulder - that may still be the cause but after having a treatment it shouldn't be. A visit from the dentist will be in order too. I am having my first lesson on her on Monday which I am looking forward to but dreading at the same time, I need someone to be firm with me but not too much that I get off with jelly legs! I'll definitely try the running martingale, I didn't want to put a standing one on like a friend suggested as they seem a bit more forceful/abrupt. Thanks for your replies |
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Post by LucyHebditch on Sept 15, 2012 20:23:59 GMT
Standing martingale don't worry, they only co e into play when the head comes up. Just don't ride her in it the first time you use it, I've not known anything object to one but its possible. We always use them from the word go so our babies never learn their heads can go up, fantastic piece of equipment!! |
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Post by GinaGeo on Sept 15, 2012 20:58:07 GMT
I would worry that with her only being ridden once a week, she's not getting the work to help her to build muscle to support herself and you correctly - especially with her only being a four year old. It's always been my understanding that if a youngster's not getting regular work (at least three times a week in my mind) then you're better off turning away and not riding at all. When I say work, I don't mean schooling in the Ménage all the time, but a mixture of hacking about, lessons and schooling - just enough to help her to build the muscle. I understand that this isn't always practical though. I agree that martingale's at this point aren't the way to go. In my experience once they go on, they're very difficult to take off again and turn into a safety blanket. Saying that I do use one for my older horse, he has a high head carriage and his natural evasion is to stick his head up, so when jumping and doing faster work - it's nice to have there. Have the Instructor in, see what it is said and let us know how it goes |
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Post by LucyHebditch on Sept 15, 2012 21:25:37 GMT
Oh I'm soooo sorry, I forgot... It's sageandonion's way or no way. You should have named the thread 'sageandonion, I need YOUR help' as she knows it all and no one else's opinion gets a look in... Sophiabell I wish you the best of luck and I hope you sort out the problem with whichever way you choose to sort it |
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Post by sophiabell on Sept 15, 2012 21:53:25 GMT
Differing opinions, each appreciated I will let you know how my lesson goes, I think I'm going to turn her away for winter to let her grow up a bit then do more with her next year - GinaGeo, I think you are right in saying they should be in persistent work or turned away, I think it was just thought thought of having spent so much on her and knowing a lot of work was put into her I thought I could keep it up at a time when it was just not possible. Hopefully this time next year both horse and rider will have improved a lot, If so I will look back at this thread and smile |
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Post by pipandwill on Sept 15, 2012 21:55:20 GMT
I also think a standing martingale could help.
It may or may not, but you dont know unless you try.
There could be a list of things you could 'try' but every horse is different, you have to find what works for them.
Good luck
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Post by sophiabell on Sept 15, 2012 21:55:52 GMT
Sophiabell I wish you the best of luck and I hope you sort out the problem with whichever way you choose to sort it Thanks! |
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Post by dippykestral on Sept 15, 2012 22:06:09 GMT
Well in my very humble opinion, turning her away for the winter and letting her mentally mature would probably do her the world of good; youngsters are just that and a lot of them do chuck their heads, and if she is only being ridden once a week it's not too surprising. Gradually building her up with hill work, hacking and a few lessons sounds like a sensible idea. Vary it.
If, next year, you find she is still chucking her head about, it may be worth just trying a standing martingale, just to see whether it does work. Like anything, if used correctly, they can be a great help.
Best of luck with her.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Sept 15, 2012 22:10:24 GMT
The concentration thing is to be expected from a youngster, is there any chance you could do more but shorter schooling sessions through the week? I wouldn't worry about canter to start with, but concentrate on getting her listening to you so keep it very varied, lots of transitions and half halts, circles, serpentines etc. so that she's not able to anticipate and has to listen to you for her next instruction. You should find that this will help the back end work more underneath her and as a consequence her head should come down. Once you feel things have improved in walk and trot then re introduce canter as part of your schooling sessions.
Also, if you have recently brought her back into work, have you checked her saddle still fits properly as it's quite possible she is changing shape and might need her tack looking at - this could account for the hollowing and throwing her head up.
Myself I would go down the schooling route first, and it is helpful to have someone on the ground who can see what's happening as it's difficult to tell from descriptions on here exactly what's going on. Is it possible that an instructor could come to you? Also if you could just get a friend to video you, then you can watch it back and you might find it helpful, I know the first time I was video'd riding I just thought 'OMG do I really do that!', it really helps you see things more clearly.
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Post by brt on Sept 16, 2012 7:54:33 GMT
I have no objections to a standing martingale, but if i were to use one i would use an elasticated one.
Videoing yourself as MM said really does help as you get to see how you react to her and vice versa.
Good luck, youngsters are never easy xx
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Post by sophiabell on Sept 16, 2012 8:54:28 GMT
Videoing myself is a pretty good idea! I'm forever saying what does it look like to people on the ground and usually i get a response that doesn't match what it feels like. I will definitely concentrate more on the trot and walk - she is the first baby I have ridden since my 10 year old was that age. I think that maybe I have been a bit too expectant in walk trot and canter then scared myself a bit - it just seems that everyone I know who has 4 year olds have them out jumping and all sorts which makes me think have I done her any harm by doing very little since she came back? Next year I will have much more time as I won't take on 3 jobs over summer and hopefully my mum will be fit enough to help me again, I just wanted her to be ridden when she could rather than turn her away as (because I am going back to uni) I was wanting to put her out on long term loan and thought that anyone who wanted to see her may think I had something to hide if I said she hadn't been ridden.... Thanks again for your replies, I will ride up until I go back next week then will turn her away and start a fresh next spring. It is a tough one for hacking as we are straight onto a busy main road which I wouldn't dare go out on on a baby  |
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Sept 16, 2012 14:00:27 GMT
The OP has asked for constructive comments. She is quite at liberty to choose which advice she follows and which she ignores.
What is not constructive is the arguing that has developed.
So back on topic please, if you haven't god constructive advice to offer the original poster, please don't post on this thread. Thank you.
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Post by sometime on Sept 16, 2012 15:00:15 GMT
I agree with sageandonion I would never use any form of fixed tack to hold a horses head. I am sad that anyone would even think of using a standing martingale on a baby poor little souls
I was advised recently to settle my ponies head by using drawreins again I was horrified and that was from a so called expert. You can only chose what you think is best for your pony. Everyone is free to have an opinion but I dont have to agree with it.
The only response I have ever seen to a horse in a standing martingale was for it to be pulling like a train with its head in the air trying to escape it unless it was so loose it was useless anyway but that is my humble experience of 47 years with horses
You certainly wont have done any harm by letting her grow up I dont usually start mine at all until this time of their 4 year old year so nearly 4 and a half. Turning her away until you have enough time for her will do no harm either
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Post by LucyHebditch on Sept 16, 2012 15:31:52 GMT
Sometime, I would like to inform you that that is not what a standing martingale does unless it is ridiculously tight. Trust me, if my horses pulled like a train with their head in the air I would seriously consider my riding ability! However, they do not, so the martingale must be working for me! All it does is stop them from getting their head to the ridiculous height where the rider looses control.
I'm quite concerned that you think they cause so much damage! Some of the gadgets people use to haul a head and you're worrying about a standing martingale, which does nothing of the sort!
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Post by sometime on Sept 16, 2012 15:52:18 GMT
Each to their own I dont like them you do your choice. I would never use one so would never recommend one and to be honest good schooling in a french link or other kind bit and a cavesson noseband fitted so you can get three fingers behind it would be the max I would use on any youngster. It is the quality of the rider that gives the quality of the result and I dont do quick fixes
So to start with no martingales, no pessoa, no gag bits, no flash straps and no draw reins but again that is where I start and have never had an issue with that they start late so are ready and settled, they are forward thinking and responsive and are calm and happy in their work so if it aint broke I wont fix it with gadgets I am not saying that these cant be useful for remedial training but if you start right then you dont need them.
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Post by sageandonion on Sept 16, 2012 16:25:28 GMT
I have removed my posts as these seem to invite remarks other than requested by the OP.
However, I would urge sophiabell to ignore suggestions of aides to keep a head down, particularly for your youngster that is just backed without muscle or balance. It is natural for such a youngster to be unbalanced, on the forehand and she will need to bob her head around whilst she adjsts to her new ridden career.
Trust no one who says gadgets are right for your young horse. Consider the other suggestions, bearing in mind we don't know your level of riding or your horse and if you think something might be helpful, ask your instructor what he/she thinks.
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Post by brindlerainbow on Sept 16, 2012 16:48:46 GMT
I would say she needs more regular work, hacking and schooling/lessons with a good instructor. Forget a standing martingale as this horse is an unfit, unmuscled baby that needs to learn to balance itself without being restricted. Once you and the horse are in regular work together and you both become fitter you will find that pushing the horse up into it's bridle and making sure you use your legs then im sure she will start to relax and accept the bit and start working in an outline. Restricting her with a standing martingale while she is still getting used to the whole ridden concept you might end up with a horse that starts to argue with you. Good luck |
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Post by horseylady on Sept 16, 2012 17:18:41 GMT
A standing martingale only comes into effect when the horse puts his head really high, in a position that is deemed dangerous and uncontrollable ... If the martingale is loose, then it will have no effect on balance, restriction etc ... No one has suggested using a gadget to restrict, or tie in!
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Post by LucyHebditch on Sept 16, 2012 18:15:45 GMT
The level of understanding regarding a simple standing martingale is absolutely hilarious!!
If you don't use one that's fine but please don't tell me how a horse goes in one, when that's not the case AT ALL. How people can say they unbalance a horse is beyond me.
I can't comment anymore as this is so ridiculous!!
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Post by sometime on Sept 16, 2012 18:31:11 GMT
Perhaps a photo of how you would fit one may help us disbelievers and ignoramuses to understand how it doesnt act to inhibit the head and restrict movement. There is only one use for a standing martingale and that is to prevent the horse throwing its head up if it meets a stop how can that not be restricting I am willing to try to understand how using one would improve a horse over correct and careful schooling
And sorry but being rude and aggressive about what you believe to be true doesnt do your point any favours
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Post by sophiabell on Sept 16, 2012 18:32:18 GMT
Once you and the horse are in regular work together and you both become fitter you will find that pushing the horse up into it's bridle and making sure you use your legs then im sure she will start to relax and accept the bit and start working in an outline. Thanks for that, she is a typical baby build at the moment, no neck or bum but a well covered belly! I have found the past couple of times I have ridden her that if I squeeze her on a bit more she drops her head and goes forward rather than mincing - however its a fine line between doing that and then making sure she doesn't go too forward that she rushes and becomes unbalanced again. |
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Post by LucyHebditch on Sept 16, 2012 18:32:56 GMT
Oh and they DO NOT pull a horses head down, they stop it from going up 'too' high! When a horse is cantering around a field, do they have their head right up in the air? Never! So why should that be allowed when they are ridden. As long as they can gain natural balance when they're young and carrying a rider, that's all that matters. No restriction what so ever. End of.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Sept 16, 2012 18:43:42 GMT
Standing martingales have their place, so do other 'artificial aids'.
What I would suggest is that when a horse is displaying some unwanted behaviour when ridden, instead of thinking 'how can I stop this', what about thinking 'WHY is he/she doing this?'
I would always advocate finding the cause and eliminating it - thereby removing the problem at source rather than simply preventing it, which could simply result in an alternative display of resistance.
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Post by LucyHebditch on Sept 16, 2012 18:47:24 GMT
^^^^^ agree! Although I was under the illusion that this had been addressed and all other factors including pain and discomfort had been eliminated!
Just to clarify I would always check back teeth and saddle first before considering another option!
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Post by sophiabell on Sept 17, 2012 7:20:29 GMT
Yes I agree - she has had her back done and the saddle fits her fine at the moment. I haven't had the dentist out yet, I will very soon. I know at 4 their teeth change a lot, my other one used to get very sharp back teeth which she may have. The reason I started this thread is because she doesn't do it all the time and seems to do it most when she is 'away with the fairies' which made me think it is a babyish thing rather than because of any pain.
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Post by brindlerainbow on Sept 17, 2012 7:38:15 GMT
I agree with you and think it's just a babyish thing, she hasn't got her mind fully on the job yet and is just lacking a bit of concentration. A standing martingale to my mind is used for a horse that continually throws its head up and past the point of control and not a piece of tack that I would use everyday as a matter of course. As I mentioned before using plenty of leg and pushing the horse into her bridle will make her drop and work in an outline. I have to say I would have to question my riding ability if I had to ride everything in any kind of martingale. Sounds like you are doing everything right and im sure once she's in regular work you will be well away  |
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