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Post by kmc on Oct 1, 2012 16:32:13 GMT
Having my first ever moan! lol
Time and time again i have seen welshes that don't move straight being placed and getting a high confirmation mark
Not really sure why?
l'm sure the majority of judges do mark down for it, but for the judges that don't we should surely be nipping this in the bud as its wrong to encourage people to breed from these animals.
I'm referring to ponies that dish, or even plait when they walk etc, seen afew this season and they still do well in the open and hoys classes ...
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Post by gobby on Oct 1, 2012 18:17:54 GMT
unfortunately the judging of many welsh classes will always be a mystery- like wrong legs winning and ridden horses that move up and down but never travel......
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Post by cayo on Oct 1, 2012 20:01:52 GMT
i have to agree sadley
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Post by gillwales on Oct 1, 2012 20:10:55 GMT
agree with above, I also think that it is partly due to the fact that so many are bred merely to be shown in hand, hence why they also tend to be very shallow through the girth.
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Post by watchbank on Oct 1, 2012 20:13:15 GMT
Lots of welsh cobs wave at the judge but the judge pays no attention! When i bought my mare the first thing that captured my attention was the fact she moved in a straight line and didnt side step over a mystery jump............
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Post by pencaedu on Oct 1, 2012 20:41:19 GMT
We had a lovely Menai stallion for a while. Staight mover, but didn't dance & prance around like the others in the classes, so wasn't placed - he was just too well behaved & not enough fire!!
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Post by 09rebel99 on Oct 1, 2012 20:46:39 GMT
I've seen it time and time again!! I think some are that bigger moving with a huge knee action that their legs dont have anywhere else to go but sideways!! Some judges don't actually have a clue about straight moving ponies. My dales was straight as a die but one judge out of the many years of showing when asked (due to being stood bottom in a workers class below refusals when mine had gone clear) she said he didn't move straight and wasn't mannerly!! Anyone who knows my lad knows he has the manners of a saint under saddle and I honestly couldn't speak when she said it!!
I have also asked a judge about this issue very recently just out of interest, they said if that is it's only fault it will beat horses that have a few faults or that went badly. I know a horse (not welsh) that dishes terribly but does extremely well!!!
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sarah14
Full Member
50%
Welsh ponies & partbreds
Posts: 364
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Post by sarah14 on Oct 1, 2012 21:20:53 GMT
i think a small amount of a dish should be acceptable as it is a common problem, But i have seen daisy cutting , ponies looking like they are swimming (dishing) , and plaiting there front legs be placed. Makes me wonder what the judge is judging!
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sarah14
Full Member
50%
Welsh ponies & partbreds
Posts: 364
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Post by sarah14 on Oct 1, 2012 21:23:28 GMT
and also ones nearly hitting there chin with exaggerated knee action in trot in a HOYS class getting placed?,
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Post by bethanyy on Oct 1, 2012 21:50:03 GMT
I don't have welshies so correct me if I'm wrong, but in some cases can dishing be classed as a 'trait' of a welsh and is overlooked by most judges? Or is that just a stereotype?
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Post by desktop on Oct 2, 2012 5:19:20 GMT
i think a small amount of a dish should be acceptable as it is a common problem, But i have seen daisy cutting , ponies looking like they are swimming (dishing) , and plaiting there front legs be placed. Makes me wonder what the judge is judging! I disagree, dishing is a conformation fault. I have a welsh D who is as straight as anything but like others have said doesn't get placed inhand because she is too well behaved, judges have even told me that! Under saddle she will normally get one of the highest conformation marks? |
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danni
Full Member
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Post by danni on Oct 2, 2012 9:04:55 GMT
For some judges all that seems to matter is a big huge flashy trot!
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Post by kmc on Oct 2, 2012 14:43:28 GMT
I don't have welshies so correct me if I'm wrong, but in some cases can dishing be classed as a 'trait' of a welsh and is overlooked by most judges? Or is that just a stereotype? Lol i guess one could say it is sadly becoming a 'common trait' these days, but this doesn't make it stereotype xx |
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Post by kmc on Oct 2, 2012 14:52:40 GMT
i think a small amount of a dish should be acceptable as it is a common problem, But i have seen daisy cutting , ponies looking like they are swimming (dishing) , and plaiting there front legs be placed. Makes me wonder what the judge is judging! I disagree, dishing is a conformation fault. I have a welsh D who is as straight as anything but like others have said doesn't get placed inhand because she is too well behaved, judges have even told me that! Under saddle she will normally get one of the highest conformation marks? It is bizarre, manners should count for something? I understand the welshes put on a good show when they are fired up but i've heard instances where people have blind folded them in the box etc to make them full of it when they go in the ring. Bit sad really, wouldn't go that far for a red rosette personally xx |
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Post by gillwales on Oct 4, 2012 7:04:02 GMT
We had a lovely Menai stallion for a while. Staight mover, but didn't dance & prance around like the others in the classes, so wasn't placed - he was just too well behaved & not enough fire!! you definitely have a point. It really used to annoy me when a person with a cob could not enter the ring in a mannerly way, they nearly always go charging in, the cobs in particular are not shown with balanced paces. The societies governing these classes especially the WPCS should introduce rules that state that animals should have to enter the ring at walk, encourage Judges to ask for the animals be displayed with balanced paces and heavily penalize those that do not move straight. >ets face it that is never going to happen! |
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Post by brt on Oct 4, 2012 7:54:56 GMT
The steward at the RWAS told everyone if they didn't walk into the ring she would throw them out, good on her !
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Post by twofatladies88 on Oct 4, 2012 19:52:15 GMT
But I thought it was the done thing, atm, to enter the ring at the speed of sound from your box across the showground with a welsh? Oh and woe betide anyone who gets in your way! (only seen A's C's and D's do this)
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Post by twofatladies88 on Oct 4, 2012 19:54:05 GMT
And cobs that dish like mad and judges that still put them up the line, do my head in!
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Post by sometime on Oct 5, 2012 9:38:33 GMT
Not many dishing ridden cobs at HOYS this week the only seat we could get was on the end where they were trotting towards us I dont think any dished a few plaited though in walk
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Post by prettyreckless on Oct 5, 2012 10:50:54 GMT
i personally think its time to sack pretty much everyone and start again with a fresh set of rules!
showing welshies has become a joke!
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Post by vikki85 on Oct 5, 2012 13:29:26 GMT
My mare gets nowhere inhand for the same reasons desktop has already described. I haven't done a great deal of ridden showing but from what I gather she is more of a 'ridden type'. She moves straight as you like, but doesn't have particularly extravagant action. I get confused as to what is looked for in a ridden class, because people talk about how much 'action' a cob should have yet I've heard others say that extravagant action isn't ideal in a ridden cob as doesn't give as 'smooth' of a ride?  |
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Post by welshiegirl on Oct 5, 2012 19:37:44 GMT
I think some breeders, judges need to look at how a true welshie should be.... Stunning, and I mean it was the most beautiful section A you could ever see, at Fayreoaks, but my gosh it could breaststroke for the olympic team! But I bet it will be seen at the top shows! Welshes aren't meant to have this hackney up to the eyeballs movement- yet the ones that do this, win and get placed, but the true welsh ponys, that move straight, have the correct action for there breed are placed down the line because they 'Don't move enough!' also, on the note of Section B's that are now being bred as show ponies (  ) everyone down at fayreoaks were disgusted at the lack of bone and when there was the ones with proper welsh bone a big uproar etc yet some of these people are the ones that are doing it, and some judges were there as well! it's so frustrating- Having a traditional B myself I'm sick of these show-pony types winning classes because their legs are as thin as stick insects and the legs move straight up to there nose! rant over lol |
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Post by Welshcob92 on Oct 8, 2012 15:50:56 GMT
I hate to see dishing; but disagree completely with some comments. my d mare is straight as a die, moves well, abd behaves like a saint. this year she won at equifest, silver medal show, 3 x wins at bronze medal shows and a championship m&m, at a mix of welsh breed shows, county shows and agricultual, so I don't believe it has to be one thing or abother just to win. photos below show her moving straight, not the best quality but you get the jist.   |
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Post by Giddie on Nov 3, 2012 23:18:02 GMT
Welshiegirl you are so right "Welshes aren't meant to have this hackney up to the eyeballs movement- a good lift extension flick is what suppose to happen .. I do also think some judges get carried away on seeing movement which isn't true to type..
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Post by canna on Nov 3, 2012 23:51:20 GMT
This sort of thing isn't just a problem in the Welsh breed. The statement above has some poignancy 'ponies bred for the showring'. I feel the real problem is a lack of honesty in breeders and ourselves at times. Pony showing has changed enormously over the last 5-10 years, the 'emperors new clothes' reigns supreme.
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Post by nia2311 on Nov 4, 2012 3:40:48 GMT
the 'emperors new clothes' reigns supreme. Don't tell Flee. She came up with the idea of naked showing earlier this year. I don't think more encouragement is needed!  (Sorry, couldn't resist ;D) |
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Post by gillwales on Nov 4, 2012 3:43:36 GMT
the 'emperors new clothes' reigns supreme. Don't tell Flee. She came up with the idea of naked showing earlier this year. I don't think more encouragement is needed! (Sorry, couldn't resist ;D) Mr Flee should stop her watching Gok......... |
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Post by cyffryn on Nov 5, 2012 20:10:13 GMT
I don't think it is just welsh ponies that are put up when they dish. |
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leisurelakes1
Junior Member
Leisure Lakes Equestrian Centre
Posts: 65
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Post by leisurelakes1 on Nov 12, 2012 2:33:05 GMT
Showing in general has changed,and I agree never more so than in the lsat five to ten years yet the style of showing a welsh in all its glory has been that way since I remember surely the flamboyance and flash of the welsh is part of its characteristic and yes dishing is a fault but if people look closely (beyond the flash)they will see in the majority of cases the ones that I've watched closely anyway,the dish has only been placed above a straight moving pony after other factors have been taken into consideraion such as the rest of the conformation I'd rather be beaten by a pony that dished than one that was too long in the back or too close behind etc,I think its important to allow each breeder/owner/society have their own ideals on the animals they love and keep the true spirit alive.I know I have received very different commens on my fell mare over the last 5 years than when I first started showing her 14 years ago I used to get praised for how balanced and steady her canter was "for a fell" now to be told is a shame her canter is not as powerfull as her trot (bearing in mind that originally fells weren't cantered and canter is not their strongest pace) and the fact that my mare is now in her twenties I take it on the chin yes guidelines for should be followed I wholeheartedly agree with that and yes conformation and movement should be judged equally across the board but don't lose the identity of each of our breeds or the fantastic selection of british ponies this country has would merge into one and that would be the real shame and the true fact is showing fashions in general change whether we as the competitors like it or not, we either live with it,move with it, stand our ground for what we believe in by showing your type your way and hoping that the next judge you come across shares your views or get out of showing
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) everyone down at fayreoaks were disgusted at the lack of bone and when there was the ones with proper welsh bone a big uproar etc yet some of these people are the ones that are doing it, and some judges were there as well! it's so frustrating- Having a traditional B myself I'm sick of these show-pony types winning classes because their legs are as thin as stick insects and the legs move straight up to there nose! rant over lol
