Canter

[carrie17491]

I am in the process of re-breaking the section d mare as she was completely ruined over summer whilst out on loan.

She is coming along great - finally! However when I'm asking to canter on a bend, to ensure the correct strike off, she would much rather extend than can canter. After 3/4 strides of extension she will canter, are there any tricks I can use to ensure a more prompt canter transition? She is very balanced in trot now hence why we are at the canter stage. Saddle fits her and no underlying issues etc. I'm not sure if she just being plain lazy or I need to be more assertive?

I use the SAT technique, suggest ask tell and she just throws in a huge buck if I back my aid up with a tap on her bum. Any tips greatly welcomed.

[sarahp]

Teach her to do walk to canter instead to start with. Works a treat, my instructor years ago got me to do it with my first ridden D who did the same as yours.

[bethanyy]

My instructor taught me if you get no response to a squeeze/kick then a smack with a whip, and if the horse/pony bucks to give another smack to tell them the behaviour is naughty.

Also try voice commands? Does she canter on the lunge using a distinct voice command?

[carrie17491]

She does canter to voice commands but I am trying to get her out of this as I'm wanting to show her so can't ideally shout "canter!!" In a ring haha!

Sarahp what's the best way to teach them walk to canter? We do lots of trot to halt and vice versa to make sure she is listening to me before we even contemplate canter.

[sarahp]

Good impulsive walk, then clear and definite canter aids, using your voice too would ideal to start with if she knows the canter command then stop using it as you get the canter to the aids. And of course lots of praise when you get canter - you may get a stride or two of trot to start with but she'll soon get the idea. I was gobsmacked at the thought but found it was easier than it sounded.

Bethanyy - Ds often find it much easier to extend in trot than to canter, and also as mine did fuss and worry about the difficult (to them) canter pace so hence prefer to give you extension when you ask for "go". I don't know what you ride but your instructor's advice is more suited to those who don't go forward to the leg willingly than those who extend in trot rather than canter - you're more likely to get an even bigger trot from those!

[judyh]

Turn on the haunches into canter. This makes them have the inside hind leg under them and ensures correct lead.
Mine were all taught on the lunge first using voice and whip. They all do lateral work from the ground, i use 2 reins and no artificial aids.From a 12hh pony to a 16.1hh horse this has been very successful.

[GinaGeo]

My four year old (rising five -eek!) is a part bred Welsh and he too liked to give me a nice big flashy trot when asked to canter. We worked round it by totally over prepare for the canter, sitting trot for at least 7 strides beforehand, leg behind girth but not actually "on". This gave him the time to settle to the aid, process it and then when I applied the aid properly and said "and canter" he would canter as opposed to rushing off into the flustered trot.

If he didn't give me the snappy transition I wanted he was brought back down to the trot, resettled and asked again. If he ignored me then he'd get a flick up from the schooling whip and again we'd repeat.

Now he's getting stronger and has started the basic lateral work, he's asked for some shoulder fore before the transition to encourage the lift of the shoulder and the hind leg to step through. It's getting there and is much better than before

The voice aid is gradually decreasing as the understanding of the leg and seat aids are developed

On a more mature and physically stronger horse then the walk to canter and turn on the haunches to canter would also help.

[carrie17491]

I'm not prepared to try turning on the haunches to get canter as she's only 4 (also rising 5!!!) and so it would be quite hard for me to ask this of her.

Ill try the sitting trot gingageo, this calms her trot right down in trot. Ill be schooling her shortly so will let you know how we get on.

[sarahp]

I was always taught to canter from sitting trot and not rising anyway. Mine was very much a novice when she learned walk to canter as a step on the way to getting a proper canter trans. We did first stages of lateral work a lot on the way to other stuff - leg yielding and riding "square" circles to get the hind legs underneath came very early on.

[Deleted]

is there really any need?^ common sense questions??? she's asking other people's opinions on what they would do. if you dont like the idea of people asking questions why are you on a forum?

[sarahp]

Seconded.

[copperfields]

horseymad92 I think the latter part of your comment, if not all of it is completely out of order, very rude and very disrespectful whether you know the OP or not!

[lfd]

Nov 12, 2012 19:26:04 GMT horseymad92 said:

I think this conversation is hilarious... if you actually knew what you were doing then you wouldn't need to be asking these common sense questions. maybe it's the fact that your arse is too big for the saddle as I've previously seen.

What a disgusting thing to say!!!

As far as im concerned this forum is for us all to share knowledge/experiences and enjoy talking to other horsey friends, not for making hurtfull nasty comments that are totally un called for!

[vikki85]

horseymad92, totally out of order. No need for such a horrible personal comment. And the OP is asking other experienced people's opinions, this does not mean she doesn't know what she is doing. Part of being a good rider is knowing when to ask for help!

[carrie17491]

we tried the cantering again and on the right rein she is perfect now but is falling in on her left so for now we aren't cantering. I'm going to focus on her falling in first and get her leg yielding and progress to circle work. A few friends have said to get her working and moving away from my left leg which will help with bending, is that correct? (Want to double check before I start doing it!)

[Admin]

horseymad92 has removed their own post.
They wont be joining in again for a short while.

[carrie17491]

Thank you admin

[sarahp]

Sounds fine carrie.

[carrie17491]

Brill, will have a bash at that then and see how we go. Can use leg yielding out hacking too

[sarahp]

I always found it easier to teach leg yielding out hacking going from one side of a wide path to the other as they tend to "hang" to the support of an edge and don't get it in the same way in a school.

[CarolineNelson]

Carrie, someone above mentioned using 'square' circles (even in your mind) and it IS a good idea - in other words - ride the corners deep and you will find that your mare will understand the bend better.

If by any chance there are safe things to ride around (such as round straw bales still in a stubble field) then it helps them to understand, too.

I would suggest trying your strike-offs evenly though. If you don't attempt any left canter then she might get the misplaced idea that canter only happens to the right.
Sarah P's 'walk-to-canter' tip is very sensible advice.

Much of what we do is habit forming.
eg: My little dog - previously a brood bit*h who didn't wear a collar - has her collar taken off when we get in the house in the evening. Then I make human food and she gets hers. Now she associates 'collar off' with 'tea'. My rod for my own back!!

But, you can use my example to suit you, too. Hopefully your mare responds to verbal praise so don't be afraid to tell her she's good when she's cracked it.
And, if she canters to the verbal command on the lunge (both reins) then don't be afraid to use the word when riding. Don't worry, once she has learned to associate the combination of the word, the sitting trot and the leg aid, over time you can remove the spoken command.

Hey - and don't let vindictive comments get to you.
Yours is a sensible question. Many heavier breeds find third gear difficult to begin with, until the penny drops, when they usually find that they really rather like it.

[GinaGeo]

The square corners are a very useful exercise, and will certainly help you to establish moving off the leg and is the starts of turn on the hanuches and walk pirrouettes etc.

Leg yielding is easily taught out hacking and shoulder fore, leading to shoulder in often is too. I consider all of this to be the basics of the horse learning to move around and whilst they don't need to be drilled every time they're ridden it's useful to have the response there if you need it.

Something often taken for granted is that for a good quality canter you need a good quality trasition and for a good quality transition you need a good quality trot. Make sure you can ride the trot and feel fully in control of the bend and the rhythm. You also need to make sure you don't drop the contact as well, it's often easy to do as you're wanting to move up a gear but if you drop them they will run. It was something I was certainly guilty of - I didn't realise I was doing it of course - but my instructor picked up on it and the difference it made was huge.

Sometimes I think we place too much on our horse's training and their faults and forget about ourselves and the huge biomechanical faults we may have that influence our horses. I for example am guilty of overturning my shoulders on a circle or round corners, this weights my inside seatbone more and creates a blocking effect making it very difficult for the insde hind leg to come through, allows the outside shoulder to drift much more easily and thus eventually effects the quality of the canter transition. If I really concetrate and keep my shoulders square (my trainer uses a head light analogy - my shoulders have head lights attached to them and my horse shoulder have head lights, the head lights need to be parrellel and face in the direction of travel - light bulb moment!) We all have our faults, and we need making aware of them to help us to correct them.

[sarahp]

Being long in the tooth, "shoulder fore" wasn't around as such when I was learning, I've only seen it used when watching training at the TTTT (Training the Teachers of Tomorrow Trust) which is strictly classical, so could you possibly explain it in words of one syllable for us GG? So often correct preparation and setting up is the key to the horse learning new movements.

I do second the bit about looking at oneself - not just physically but mentally too. Due to my D mare above, I got a "thing" about cantering and often blew it by worrying too much about my own riding. Thinking "lift into canter" helped me, a gifted instructor can find these phrases that will resonate with an individual pupil.

You bit about transitions made me laugh, so true. We took our 3yo A colt to a BEF Futurity and after a stunning vet mark we were hoping for a good result - he blew it though because of exactly what you said. We hadn't done any loose schooling practice, and he was so keen to show off his stonking extended trot that to get canter at all we had to really push to get him to canter at all, with the result that he went off too fast and flat for a good mark. Hey ho, we all learn as we go along!

[GinaGeo]

Shoulder fore is essentially the same movement as shoulder in but with a lesser angle and is thus a good stepping stone. The aids are essentially the same for both, the shoulder fore just isn't on three tracks like we expect Shoulder in to be.

I also use it on a circle to really lift the shoulder and encourage the hind end to step through. As with shoulder in you have to make sure the shoulders step over as opposed to the quarters swinging out but it's a really useful exercise for increasing the suppleness and also the straightness.

[carrie17491]

The squares is a good exercise.

I did have a go at them last night and she is finding it a real struggle in the left rein, but introducing leg yielding I think will help not only with the bending but she likes to try new things! I never thought of assessing myself, when I think about I drop my inside shoulder when asking to canter (no idea why) but the headlights is a very good idea! Will most definitely try that one! I did suggest last night putting something in the corners for me to ride around so will have a rummage to see what we have.

I really appreciate what advice I am given, I do take pity on people that have to throw a spanner in the works and cause a bit of a rumble but here on HG sadly we are used to it. There are a heck of a lot more experienced people than me on here hence why I use the forum as the advice I receive is fab and effective. We all have our own way of doing things and sometimes trying a different way suits the horse. "Keep calm and canter on" haha

[lulah]

my D was the same. he was just driven for several years.
i have found leg yeild, shoulder fore and square circles all beneficial. plus walk to canter although it did take a quite a while for him to understand this.
we have been reschooling for around 8 months now and his right rein transtion is practically perfect. The left has always been the trickier but we only get 1 or 2 steps of rushed trot now.
i also found canter poles, small jumps, grid work and cantering out on hacks very beneficial too.

good luck!

[carrie17491]

Nov 14, 2012 14:15:37 GMT lulah said:

my D was the same. he was just driven for several years.
i have found leg yeild, shoulder fore and square circles all beneficial. plus walk to canter although it did take a quite a while for him to understand this.
we have been reschooling for around 8 months now and his right rein transtion is practically perfect. The left has always been the trickier but we only get 1 or 2 steps of rushed trot now.
i also found canter poles, small jumps, grid work and cantering out on hacks very beneficial too.

good luck!

That's very useful to me, thank you! Nice to know I'm not the only one ;D