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Post by charitybrooke on Nov 5, 2008 9:45:52 GMT
I gather from several people this is quite a common method for getting horses to 'take to the bit' - or just to build muscle, i cant decide what tot hink of it. (i mean when they are stood with a roller and side reins on in a box/field) as i obviously have no issue with lungeing in side reins, so is standing in them for 30mins really that bad? i am indecisive on the matter, but looking at the necks of half the show ponies on the circuit i am not convinced it is all through schooling!
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Post by lorilingo on Nov 5, 2008 13:23:21 GMT
I wouldn't do it to mine - when lunging they are doing something, they are working forwards and using their back ends - building muscle correctly. If they are stood in the stable all tied up, unable to eat or drink it would seem like a punishment - would never do it to mine.
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Post by Alphabet on Nov 5, 2008 14:18:21 GMT
Surely tying a horse in and standing it still will not build any muscle mass anyway? A horse has to actively move for it to do that. Think about going to the gym - you dont just go and stand there do you?! You have to exercise! IMO waste of time, and not very nice.
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Post by thecremellosociety on Nov 5, 2008 16:39:50 GMT
When mine has been lunged in his pessoa, i dont rush it off him, we will stand in stable for 5 mins while i do his mane or tail for instance, then off it comes, i dont think its right to tie down a youngsters head for extended periods of time, i have no obejections to the use of side reins and balancing systems, for limted amounts of time and at the correct tension not overly tight, for leading and in hand and starting off, in fact i think the fact that i have always worked mine equally on both sides and balanced has helped him become balanced, level and careful, we have started grid work and jumping on the lunge ( obviously not with side or pessoas !!!) i tie the reind loosley to the top ring on roller when jumping and he is able to do bounces, and all pole work well, i put that down to starting him to work in a correct shape, never forced but happy to accept it, now comes down naturally on the bit when ridden.
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Post by lucretia on Nov 5, 2008 20:52:24 GMT
sadly many ponies are very overbent and I am convinced that tying their heads down before they have had a chance to develop a natural outline by working correctly forward into a contact which should always be giving and never fixed. Incorrect use of some aids causes this and very unhappy ponies. It is so difficult to correct once they are like this and its one of my pet hates.They look like they are about to tip on their noses when moving. I much prefer to see a pony slightly in front of the vertical especially a youngster.
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Post by hannahlh on Nov 5, 2008 22:00:31 GMT
i think its cruel and un-natural to put it bluntly. Correct schooling and encourage ment can achive this outline with out the need to make the horse feel like he is being punished.
Sorry for the rant, not in a very good mood :-)
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Post by clampit on Nov 6, 2008 6:15:53 GMT
i think its cruel and un-natural to put it bluntly. Correct schooling and encourage ment can achive this outline with out the need to make the horse feel like he is being punished. Sorry for the rant, not in a very good mood :-) totally agree  I don't like side reins anyway they do not encourage a natural outline, just aid to pin the head down, proper schooling is a lot kinder and works a lot better |
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Post by bowditchblobs on Nov 6, 2008 16:18:40 GMT
At a show a few years ago there was a sec a left tied to its trailer in side reins and a bridle it was left there for hours and hours. I felt like marching over and releasing it poor thing, but sadly it gos on all the time in showing, no one will admit to it though will they!!!! My back lady hates side reins she said they cause all sorts of problems, she recommends a pessoa.
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abc123
Junior Member
Posts: 95 
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Post by abc123 on Nov 7, 2008 9:55:44 GMT
Tying in degrades the mouth - guaranteed. It stiffens them up throught the front & shortens their stride.
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Post by dsmum on Nov 8, 2008 6:32:05 GMT
I use a pessoa on my 4 year old and only in walk and trot to encourage him to bend correctly. It is not used on the lower rings and is reasonably loose. He is really happy to work into the bit. He has a massive muscular neck although thats done to his previous owner but Im carrying on her training with her guidance. A happy horse.
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Post by charitybrooke on Nov 8, 2008 11:57:47 GMT
Pessoas are fantastic!! altough i thought the lower rings were to start off with, and you shouldnt use the higher rings until they are more advanced?
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Post by flygirl2 on Nov 8, 2008 13:39:16 GMT
if anyones after a pessoa i have them advertised under tack for sale pony pessoa £74.99 plus postage www.cjstack.com |
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Post by grotty on Nov 8, 2008 14:53:00 GMT
Pessoas are fantastic!! altough i thought the lower rings were to start off with, and you shouldnt use the higher rings until they are more advanced? Yes you are meant to start off on the lowest points of a training roller. Only going up higher when they are schooling higher if that makes sense. |
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Post by klbeebs on Nov 11, 2008 21:22:01 GMT
if a pony won't naturally accept the bit and goes with his nose in the air - is a pessoa a good place to start
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Post by squirly on Nov 23, 2008 19:08:50 GMT
our 14.2 had head tied in at 3 years- long before being broken in, he has a lovely neck and you never even need to ask for an outline, but now at 6, no different to any other professionally-broken well-schooled 6 year old
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Post by tesstkat on Nov 23, 2008 22:25:21 GMT
i must add in this thread that imo i lunge with side reins and also when i stap i put on the roller and side reins but i start with them loose and then tighten after time walking her round in between before tightening if anyone has any info on whether this is causing lasting damage to my horse please let me know ?
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Post by diadem on Nov 23, 2008 22:33:41 GMT
I agree with overbent.  |
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Post by kerry750 on Nov 24, 2008 11:35:41 GMT
I have seen it done to young horses but I wouldnt do it to any horse I have. It cant do much as some one has said they are just standing with their heads held in and not working the muscles. Plus when I use side reins I lunge in them but I warm my horse up before clipping them on, so standing in side reins as well as not achieving nething the muscles are cold when tied in. Nah I dont like that Idea.
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Post by clampit on Nov 24, 2008 12:58:03 GMT
I agree with overbent. Me too, its a cruel practice and there is no need for it |
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Post by blanche on Nov 24, 2008 15:12:41 GMT
At a show a few years ago there was a sec a left tied to its trailer in side reins and a bridle it was left there for hours and hours. I felt like marching over and releasing it poor thing, but sadly it gos on all the time in showing, no one will admit to it though will they!!!! My back lady hates side reins she said they cause all sorts of problems, she recommends a pessoa. If you saw blatent cruelty why did you not alert the show organiser? People are colluding with this cruelty by staying silent and moaning on web sites not confronting it whilst it happens!! . Just like the posts about hitting horses/ponies we can all rant after the matter its the point of intervention that counts otherwise the observer is also concordant with the abuse!!!! |
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Post by penny h on Dec 7, 2008 12:44:20 GMT
I don't use side reins for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. Pet hate is seeing kids riding on the lead in them just before the class!!
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Post by okcaj on Dec 8, 2008 12:39:30 GMT
I love the pessoa, always lunge mine in it x x
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Post by bowditchblobs on Dec 8, 2008 20:55:02 GMT
Only just come back on this thread and seen what the guest i will add GUEST ie a name less person put to my earlier comment. Yes i did say to lady when i did my enteries ACTUALY LOVE im realy going to march up to some one in this day and age and start ranting at them, might get a punch in the nose!!! Its hardly blatant cruelty is it, its head wasnt on the floor, its just not some thing i would do. And put your name in future, your as bad.
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Post by morwenstowstud on Dec 15, 2008 2:15:56 GMT
I use side reins for lunging. Used correctly they can encourage a pony to work into a contact when there's no rider. I wouldn't leave a pony stood in them in a stable. They are a schooling aid, not a schooling substitute.
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Post by drenrowstud on Dec 18, 2008 0:37:43 GMT
if you need to build up a ponies neck try the old fashioned way strap it with a strapping pad or a body brush it works wonders , usualy its the other way round though i find its staping bums to balance up a big neck .
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Lulu
Full Member
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Post by Lulu on Dec 23, 2008 19:04:53 GMT
A couple of years ago we arrived at a show the night before and bumped into a woman we hadn't seen for a while and stopped to have a chat. She was holding her lead-rein pony with child on top and the side-reins were so tight that the pony had it's head almost on it's chest. We kept trying to end the conversation as the pony looked so uncomfortable and kept trying to pull down all the time but she just kept reminding the child to 'pull it's head up'!
We eventually managed to extricate ourselves from the situation and we went to feed and bed down our ponies and she went off to work pony and child on the lunge. Almost an hour later she had engaged in yet another long conversation with someone presumably on the way back from 'working in' and the pony was still tightly 'tied in' and the child was looking absolutely miserable. We couldn't believe how long she'd had that pony's head jammed down like that and my daughter was quite upset about it. We didn't say anything at the time but now I wish I had because I'm sure she was just ignorant to the fact that she was causing the pony so much discomfort.
The woman was next to last in her class the next day and the pony was constantly pulling the reins out of the rider's hands, not surprisingly! The sad thing is that this is not an isolated incident and little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing in the hands of these folk. I do believe that used correctly and carefully they are useful as a schooling aid (although not a substitute as someone has already said) but all too many times there use is abused and this is what I totally disagree with.
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