Bit advice please

[Em5]

Hi

I have a little welsh pony that I want to get out of his wilki into a dressage legal snaffle. My problem is he is strong and leans on the bit, I was advised a verbindend which I have bought and he really leaned on it especially in canter and was like a little tank. My daughter is only 7, so am going to try something lighter and try a loose ring happy mouth. Now with all the wonderful variations do I try a standard, lozenge or one with a roller?

[Deleted]

I love a waterford for animals that lean on the bit - how about riding in a waterford at home? plenty of serpentines, halts, half halts etc, then try a french link snaffle. I think thats the way I would go.

[GinaGeo]

I don't think you're going to find a miracle bit for this, it's quite likely to be a schooling issue as opposed to a bit issue. As your daughter is only little it's quite likey she will want to be having fun and not schooling. Could you do some schooling from the ground, or perhaps pop a small adult on board to make the corrections needed. The pony needs to learn that the false outline the wilkie put him in isn't desirable and will most likely need the shoulder lifting and the hind-end engaging. Lots of transitions and some basic lateral will help with this, the transitions could be made into a game for your daughter to play with him.

Best of Luck

[sarahp]

I can remember struggling with a big WB (daughter's) who came to us "upside down" in terms of head carriage and muscle development. We had lot of help from a dressage trainer but the bit of advice that stuck in my head was "when he softens to you, soften your hands in exchange." Something worked anyway, he did great dressage in the end.

Echo the transitions and lateral work to lighten the front end - or as daughter's dressage trainer says - move him from front wheel drive to 4WD, hopefully eventually to rear WD in full self carriage!

[Em5]

Thankyou for your replies, My daughter enjoys schooling, she already does lots of transitions to try and correct him, in trot she can push him through it, in canter its more difficult. His wilkie never caused him to come into a false outline, (its never had any effect on his outline :-( ) it actually amazes me all these people that say they force the horses head in etc as this has never happened with him, the only way he will come into an outline is if he is made to work correctly from behind, maybe my daughters hands are too soft that it doesnt work how people describe it, not sure!......
I wouldn't put an adult on him for two reasons, one he's worse with an adult and is even stronger and secondly I need my daughter to be able to school him and work him through this and she will never be able to ride like an adult or give the same precise aids that an adult can.

She has weekly lessons and it is something we're working on, hence why we thought trying a milder bit might be the way to go to see if he respons better to it, its not a case of him bolting off or anything and my daughter is fine with him its more that he's just leaning on the bit and making her arms ache!

[Em5]

Haha sarahp, i like the sound of that :-)

[Deleted]

I mortally hate wilkies, they cause nothing but problems to sort, which is why most of the ponies that have come to me 'to sort; have come in the first place, some people just cannot see how they make a pony go - they either back off them because of the action they have in their mouth, or they fight them - I have yet to see anything go comfortably in one... it takes months for them to forget they have had one in... just my opinion!

[Em5]

He goes well in his wilki to be honest but its not dressage legal and this is what we are hoping to pursue this year. Maybe it's because of the gag action that he isn't strong in it and doesn't lean like he does in a snaffle.

I've just bought a Pessoa to get him working from behind on the lunge more, he never normally has any gadgets on for lunging or riding.

[Deleted]

The reason he isn't working from behind is the WILKIE, hey ho I'll shut up now..

[GinaGeo]

You're on the right lines Em5 and good on you for wanting to ditch the wilkie. Some ponies don't just soften if you ride forwards, you do need to get the submission and sometimes that does involve a debate until the light bulb clicks. It's fab that your daughter is interested in schooling; but there's no shame in popping a proffesional on a couple of times to have the debate effectively. My trainer's always happy to get on board to ensure that one of us has the right idea! It doesn't happen often, but having her onboard for 10 mins can shorten the "got it, lost is game" significantly.

[Em5]

Hi Jayne. I'm not disputing that the wilki may cause problems for some ponies, but I have no problems with my pony working forward or working correctly when he's in his wilki....... My problems are when I try to put him in a snaffle!!!!! no matter what type of snaffle i try he will try his luck and lean on it, wether its an eggbutt, loose ring or hanging cheek!. I want to get him in a dressage legal bit where her doesnt lean on it.

I have had a bigger rider on him after having issues post clipping when I first got him (over a year ago). He was the same in regards to leaning and being strong in a 'normal' snaffle.

ginageo sent you a private message.

[catkin]

I would echo all of GinoGeo's points and just emphasise that often the problem is at least exacerbated by the small rider who simply does not have the seat and leg to ride the pony 'through'. I would endorse using a stronger rider to set the pony up for the smaller child. Fairer all round.

[ashleigh19]

I am wanting the same Em5, a dressage legal bit which my horse feels comfortable in. I know changing her bit isnt going to be the complete solution, she does lean and is strong. We are working through this via schooling, transitions, leg yielding etc but I do believe that you also need a bit which is suited for your horse to help this? x

[angelena]

How about contacting these... www.horsebitbank.com/testimonials.html

I have found them brilliant and love the fact they hire bits out.

I have had the same problems behind the bit, above the bit, leaning on the bit. So know how your daughter feels!

[Em5]

Hi Ashleigh19 we have been trying a neue Schule verbindend, and he goes very well in it. He is still keen but I think that's possible the time of the year and him feeling well. We have been doing lots of transitions and changing reins circling Eric to stop him anticipating and keep him focused .

Weather isn't helping at the minute as the schools too wet

[welsha]

Could he be evading the tongue pressure? That would explain why he seems to go well in the verbindend. Ive been trying a half moon fulmer on one of ours and I think its very good, even better than the verbindend it was in before. There is a shop on Ebay that sells all differant half moon bits with real neat little sides and copper mouthpieces. I am very impressed with them

[Em5]

Hi welsha do you have a link, or are they called another name as can't find them. Are they dressage legal?

[welsha]

Can't seem to copy a link on my tablet! Just checked and they are still there selling for 9.95 if you put in half moon bit into ebay the one I have is the little fulmer. Sold by a company called powerstar I think. Says they are dressage legal x worth a try at that price and they are very neat x

[GinaGeo]

Half moon lozenges aren't British Dresage legal as they incorporate a port. I can see from the ebay page the company's based in Canada - bitting rules may be different there. The advert doesn't state "BD legal" which is what you'd need in this country.

The verbidend does actually act quite a lot on the tongue, albeit differently to a standard linked bit.