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Post by klouisem on Mar 3, 2013 18:20:09 GMT
I've found a nice pony that I'm interested in, beautiful breeding. His mums dad & dads dad are the same stallion, making them half brother & sister. Would this put anyone off buying? It's a very well known Welsh stud so I wouldn't say he was an accident (hes a yearling)
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Post by sectiondcrazy on Mar 3, 2013 18:40:34 GMT
one of my section D's is bred like this.....healthwise iv never had any problems but he is a little bit quirky and iv always joked its because he's interbred....however this may not be the case he may just be 'special'  ;D xx |
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Post by soxsina on Mar 3, 2013 19:53:41 GMT
I have seen this a lot when looking at breeding, especially with welsh ponies - would be interested to hear a breeder's view on this and why it happens?
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Post by clifton on Mar 3, 2013 20:57:06 GMT
i have this with my welsh D, mother and father have same dad, i didn't know at time of buying, he has no health issues but i would not buy one with same breeding again as he had issues and this could be a factor.
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Post by larkhaven on Mar 3, 2013 21:09:59 GMT
Not that unusual with Welshies - my Bunbury pony has B.Mahogany once on her Sire's side and twice on her dam's.
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Post by lowerstone on Mar 3, 2013 21:21:56 GMT
Its whats called line breeding, personally I would go back another generation before repeating. And would make sure bottom line competely different.
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Post by klouisem on Mar 4, 2013 7:09:13 GMT
I've seen it a few times, I'm putting a deposit down on him today anyway. I'm not paying a lot so not risking thousands. If it was a small stud I'd say it was a mistake but its a very well know stud & I'd like to think they knew what they are doing. We shall see.
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Post by snooperdooper on Mar 4, 2013 7:47:06 GMT
Kerry! Spill! Who is it?!?!?!
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Post by gillwales on Mar 4, 2013 8:02:01 GMT
this is INCEST, I personally would advise anyone NOT to purchase any horse or pony breed in this way, if it would not be legal for a human don't do it with an animal, you might not see any problem however the majority will have them, mental health issues, fertility problems, digestive disorders are the most common. There are lots of lovely ponies for sale so pick one without inbreeding
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Post by kirtonian on Mar 4, 2013 8:10:17 GMT
I wouldn't do it either personally, line breeding if it works or inbreeding if it doesn't lol Think it goes on quite a bit. Hope you have fun with new pony  |
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Post by 09rebel99 on Mar 4, 2013 8:37:32 GMT
I looked at my lads dams lines and turns out she was covered by her grandsire!!! It did knock me a bit sick as someone said its illegal for humans!!
He is my pony of a lifetime though and has been my best friend for nearly 20 years. Don't think I would puposly buy anything interbred though. Oh and he's a Dales so goes on in other breeds to.
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Post by Sasha on Mar 4, 2013 10:18:24 GMT
I wouldn't buy to be honest! Just doesn't sit right, I've seen this done with dogs it causes al sorts of problems
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Post by brt on Mar 4, 2013 11:18:49 GMT
Some fantastic ponies are the result of line breeding. Revel Chello and Revel Chelsea are full brother and sister and they are the Dam and Sire of Revel Chelsea Fan who was a very renowned Stallion and the make up of a lot of breeding lines.
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Post by klouisem on Mar 4, 2013 12:31:04 GMT
Well I haven't put the deposit down yet, I've told his owner I will be buying him but seen's I haven't actually sent any money i'm not committed yet.
I've seen a few on horsequest before with their mum & dad being half brother and sister, they sold for thousands, I'm only going to be paying couple of hundred, he's from Penboeth stud....
So do I, don't I?
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Post by justwelshcobs on Mar 4, 2013 13:32:22 GMT
I def wouldnt do it when breeding my dogs so would say a def no no when looking to buy a horse
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Post by jeanslater on Mar 4, 2013 13:38:29 GMT
100% yes, unless the pony is a cripple or has some other obvious fault, I didn mother to son, brother to sister, father to daughter and bred some top class animals, that are still making their place felt in the welsh world over 20 yrs on. Ignore the doubters unless they are big achievers, then you might or might not listen otherwise, go for it.
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Post by klouisem on Mar 4, 2013 13:44:11 GMT
I've seen pics/vids etc asked a million questions too, he's sound, flashy but nice temperament, very good conformation. He's what I've been looking for, for ages!
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Post by brt on Mar 4, 2013 15:14:48 GMT
I think if there was anything drastically wrong mother would have absorbed him. I'm sure on the hills a lot of ponies are closely related and Penboeth Stud aren't daft or novice. I wouldn't be put off.
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Post by gerrig06 on Mar 4, 2013 15:22:08 GMT
We had sectiond's full brother who we unfortunately lost last year at 18 years old, absolutely fantastic performance horse but very quirky in his behaviour!! nothing nasty in fact he was absolutely adorable, very honest and absolutely loved us. He wouldnt hurt a fly but just quirky about things which made him even better once you knew him, it made him who he was. we used to say oh no the inbred in him is coming out!!! I dont think they bred any more after Blush, as I think Gerrig Style is 1 year older, correct me if I'm wrong Hannah, would I buy him again yes without a doubt.
If your horse is everything you want, go for it
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Post by sectiondcrazy on Mar 4, 2013 16:44:54 GMT
We had sectiond's full brother who we unfortunately lost last year at 18 years old, absolutely fantastic performance horse but very quirky in his behaviour!! nothing nasty in fact he was absolutely adorable, very honest and absolutely loved us. He wouldnt hurt a fly but just quirky about things which made him even better once you knew him, it made him who he was. we used to say oh no the inbred in him is coming out!!! I dont think they bred any more after Blush, as I think Gerrig Style is 1 year older, correct me if I'm wrong Hannah, would I buy him again yes without a doubt. If your horse is everything you want, go for it Style is 21 this year and still behaving like a 3 yo.... did I know about his breeding when I bought him??....No as I didnt have a clue about breeding and was just looking for a pony to be my best friend!! Would I buy him again.....WITHOUT A SHADDOW OF A DOUBT!!!!! xx |
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Post by boothsdale on Mar 4, 2013 18:29:19 GMT
We have a lovely section A mare who has similar breeding with both her sire and dam being by Eppynt Skyline, it was one of the things that attracted me to her in the first place as I have always been a huge fan of Skyline and his progeny, she is one of our best mares ...
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Post by klouisem on Mar 4, 2013 18:54:47 GMT
Thankyou for all the comments, my new forest was a lovely, lovely pony but quirky, he was not inbred;) at least he'd of had an excuse if he was!! I'm sending a deposit now for this pony..... |
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Post by poop on Mar 4, 2013 19:56:40 GMT
As others have said some line breeding can be very successful, but sometimes it is taken to extremes. It has been done for years to fix a desirable type or trait in the foals but obviously sometimes it doesnt work. It just takes a knowledgeable breeder to know when it is time to outcross with different bloodlines. I think as long as the grand dams are unrelated it should be ok, but check the obvious things ie if it is a colt make sure its teeth and testicles are correct ;-)
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Post by Em5 on Mar 4, 2013 20:20:42 GMT
Would it not be better to go and see this pony in person, rather than relying on videos and owner say so? (not saying this stud would lie) but how many people do we see on here that get slated for buying a pony unseen! surely you can only check the health of a pony and know its personality by meeting the pony?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 23:05:05 GMT
personally I wouldn't, I have seen mares sired by their own father - was a complete lunatic and it never bred anything of any note at all. just one example. As a breeder I am very careful with my bloodlines as I really do think temprement runs in bloodlines, as I breed childrens ponies, this is my priority when breeding every foal.
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Post by bethanyy on Mar 5, 2013 0:34:19 GMT
Thankyou for all the comments, my new forest was a lovely, lovely pony but quirky, he was not inbred;) at least he'd of had an excuse if he was!! I'm sending a deposit now for this pony..... People say D's are stereotypically quirky animals... I think NFs are! Good luck if you decide to buy your new pony! |
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Post by klouisem on Mar 5, 2013 7:18:21 GMT
Would it not be better to go and see this pony in person, rather than relying on videos and owner say so? (not saying this stud would lie) but how many people do we see on here that get slated for buying a pony unseen! surely you can only check the health of a pony and know its personality by meeting the pony? They're 177 miles away, I've put a deposit down but not much of one, if I get there with trailer & he's completely different to what he said I'm happy to come home and lose my deposit. I'll be checking everything when I'm there. |
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Post by katealice89 on Mar 5, 2013 7:57:08 GMT
My pony's grandsire on sires side is also his great-grandsire on dams side ... A few other names pop up more than once too !
Sent from my GT-I9100P using proboards
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Mar 5, 2013 11:23:00 GMT
Ethical considerations applicable to humans are not relevant to animals, we are talking genetics here. Domestic animal matings are chosen by humans, who hopefully have lots of experience and knowledge of the bloodlines concerned, whereas humans mate randomly without any health input whatsoever. The "incest" taboo was laid down to try to prevent genetic abnormalities when human movement was far less than it is now so mating with relations was far more common as those were all that was available in your small village!
Line breeding can work extremely well, and is how our different domestic breeds were developed in the first place - how many founding stallions are there in the TB breed? Three or four, I'm sure someone will correct me if wrong. The important thing is that the common ancestor is a superb specimen with no genetic faults, as this would be likely to be magnified by line breeding in the same way the good qualities are. Apart from this, there is what is known as inbreeding depression if the line breeding is carried on for too long, when the hardiness, vigour and fertility decreases.
I wouldn't go too close, but many top class producing animals over the years have been bred by mating grandparent to grandchild. I've been trying to engineer doing it all my pony breeding life but the right animals never seemed to be available at the right time!
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Post by gillwales on Mar 6, 2013 2:47:45 GMT
sarahp, do you seriously think that genetic abnormalities only occur in humans? The problem with line breeding is that for every good point you double up on you will also double up on a weakness, these are often the unseen faults, I ran a stud and can say that visiting mares that were line breed where the ones that were difficult to get in foal along with those that had been given steroids. Also if a stud is of longstanding you will often find that if line breeding is something they practice when you go back through the generations it has been gone time and time again. If you doubt what I have said then ask a vet, The Kennel Club has finally woken up to the problems caused by line breeding, a term which sounds much better than the true meaning which is incest.
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;D
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