ponies mum&dad half brother & sister?

[sarahp]

Of course not, and I didn't say so, but as I did say humans breed randomly so the taboo is required, whereas animals have matings chosen by hopefully knowledgeable and experienced breeders (granted not always!). I also pointed out that the common ancestor must be carefully chosen to be as far as possible without genetic faults, so "may" and not "can" would be more accurate when talking of doubling up on a weakness. There are many many instances of line breeding being a great boon - as I also said, it's how our different breeds of domestic livestock were developed in the first place - but it needs applying with care.

I've been breeding ponies for over 30 years, and of course some have had faults, nothing is completely perfect, and some have been line bred, but there's no way of connecting the two. I did mention the possiblity of depressed fertility if the line breeding has gone too far, not that I personally have ever had evidence of it, and steroids should be a no-no anyway and surely not relevant to this discussion?

As for dogs - I think the situation there is made worse by the fact that they can have many more offspring then ponies, and whereas horse and pony breeders should be breeding for ideal conformation etc, but if a dog breed standard specifies something deleterious - squashed faces for example - breeders tend to try to make that quality as exaggerated as possible.

I looked up the dictionary definition of incest which is "sexual intercourse between persons too closely related to marry each other". So mating not breeding, people not animals, and marriage not a fleeting liason to produce offspring.

[gillwales]

sarahp we do not mate our horses just fir their pleasure, but to beget an offspring. Why do you think that incest was banned in people? The problems dogs have are nothing to do with the number in each litter, genetic problems are genetic problem and if you care to delusion yourself that is your choice, I have been involved in breeding for more than 30 years. I too consider that people should breed for conformation but I also consider that temperament and soundness of equal importance, consequently all of mine were easy to break and very ride-able and stayed sound in work alone with their successes in the show ring . We all know of studs who have indulged in "line-breeding" whose ponies have reputations for being difficult to or totally un-breakable.

[sarahp]

I have put scientific rather than emotional points politely, there is no call for insult. I have two science degrees, have also bred for over 30 years and have a special interest in genetics. And I agree with your points about soundness and temperament, I too have always bred for sound and trainable animals to be ridden.

[Jessica]

I thought the main problem with it was that any recessive genes are far more likely to be doubled up on, which is of particular importance with repect to genetic diseases?

[busymare]

I agree with everyone at a level! Scientifically employed as sarahp says there is a place for it. You just have to look at conservation breeding programmes to see how inbreeding can be carefully managed without deleterious effects. The classic example is the black footed ferret rescued from extinction by a breeding program involving just 18 individuals- they have been restored to ~1,000 individuals with no inbreeding depression exhibited. However I think that many people who 'line breed' do so without a complete understanding of the genetics making it a very risky occupation.

Yes fundamentally the risk is of the expression of recessive genes that were masked in the heterozygous parent. The highest risk are diseases caused by single genes as in any cross these have the highest probability of being expressed. Traits such as temperament are multi-genic and therefore in a single cross are less likely to be impacted, however if line breeding is not carefully managed then both mono- and multi-genic traits will be expressed.

Back to the OP's question I would be cautious but not fundamentally put off. Look for any other progeny with the same breeding (as they are a big stud) and see what they are doing. And look for how much line breeding has been carried out up higher up the pedigree as well.

[sarahp]

Exactly that jep51. Which is why it's so important to make sure any common ancestor is without any as far as possible!

That was much better put than I can manage busymare! Some very rare breeds of domestic livestock have had the same thing done and so been saved for posterity.

[klouisem]

I brought him & I love him. Such a genuine little chap, just needs to learn what electric fencing is! Turned him out he got all caught it it lay there then got up and just stood there while we cut him out took him back to the yard did he feet put him into his stable and he just munched his haylage like nothing happened. Turns out someone on my facebook has his full brother, he's now two and turned out lovely so there's obviously a reason they bred his dam and sire......

:-D

[sectiondcrazy]

can we see pics please ;D ;D xx

[brt]

Yes pictures are must Klouisem !! Sounds fab !!

[klouisem]

With his old owners, I'm yet to get pics! He's fluffier now & shot up so needs to fill out.

[klouisem]

photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/578978_10200519469007588_1895641846_n.jpg

[09rebel99]

He's soooo cute. Good luck with him aslong as he's loved and cared for is the main thing even if he is a bit 'line bred' or whatever they call it lol xx

[gillwales]

Mar 8, 2013 8:33:24 GMT Jessica said:

I thought the main problem with it was that any recessive genes are far more likely to be doubled up on, which is of particular importance with repect to genetic diseases?

Quite correct,

[brt]

Congrats on your new purchase, he's lovely !!