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Post by stormyskies on Apr 10, 2013 14:08:40 GMT
This is for a lady who sent her mare to my stallion last year. Am a bit at loss what to advise now so wondered if the more experienced breeders on here can offer any wisdom.
This is the scenario
TB maiden mare foaled very early hours Tuesday morning. Owners were checking every 2 hours. Mare had shown no signs whatsoever and wasn't due until today. Went down and foal born. Foal all fine and mare motherly of it but won't let it feed. Owners try to persist and call vet but mare trying to kill foal every time it goes near her back end. mare gets some bute and oxytocin and they strip mare and bottle feed foal. Mare still fighting even under sedation. Over course of next 24 hours they repeat process as mare refuses to let foal near her back end, kicking and biting it. Foal fed and by last night knew how to find milk bar and suckle. Owners continue through night and by morning they can get foal to feed without sedation but it takes 2 to pin her in the corner whilst foal feeds otherwise she would attack it. Foal has a cut above eye which looks to be from a kick and several bite marks on her body. They put them out this afternoon in a small paddock and mare did everything she should, was foal proud and snickering etc. Foal ran to the corner and refused to go near her mother. She is terrified of her. In the stable she is terrified of her and keeps trying to bolt out the door and doesn't want anything to do with her. When they came back in from field they did another feed and mare was a complete cow again trying to bite and kick foal. Owners are shattered. It's their first foal and they are unsure what to do next.
Any ideas please. Thanks in advance.
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Post by madrider on Apr 10, 2013 14:21:16 GMT
i would look for a foster mare personally, and never breed from her again, hope foalie is ok
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Post by 09rebel99 on Apr 10, 2013 15:41:35 GMT
i would look for a foster mare personally, and never breed from her again, hope foalie is ok Ditto this. It sounds like they have given long enough for them to try and settle and if they leave it like this I fear it will only end badly :-( Good luck and let us know how they get on. |
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Post by flair1 on Apr 10, 2013 16:08:24 GMT
I had this happen to me with a bit*h of mine, i know its a dog and not a mare but what i say next might help and this point anything is worth a go or its time to look for a foster mare urgently. Our bit*h was like this mare over her 8 puppies and i was at my wits end as the puppies were becoming weak and she hated them, no way was she going to let them suckle from her, she was so agressive with them. I phoned a very experienced dog breeder in despiration and she told me not to feed the bit*h for a while so she would get hungry, and them rub her food all over the puppies so she would lick it off them and that this would start the bonding process, i really wasnt convienced as my bit*h was so anti the pups, but true to her word it worked amazingly and by the second day of liking food of her pups she had excepted them and bonded. so as silly as it sounds it might be worth doing it with the mare and foal, make the feed wet and sticky and wipe it all over the foal, hopefully mum will lick it off her and this way she might bond with the foal and the foal might regain some confidence back with her mum. Best of luck anyway, let us know what happens
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Post by gillwales on Apr 10, 2013 17:05:02 GMT
if the foal is now afraid then the bond has been broken, either foster, but be careful that does not always work and I know of people who have been fleeced over this, or bottle feed the baby and find a nanny pony to give company.
The above advice may work, if it does please let us know
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Post by jeanslater on Apr 10, 2013 17:15:26 GMT
put the foal behind a barrier where the mare can see it but not get to it, make sure the mare is secure when they bring the foal to feed every 2 hrs or so, once the foal has fed put it back and make sure its safe. After a couple of days take the foal away - right away, see if she calls or the foal calls. If neither call put the foal back , and repeat until the foal calls and the mare returns the call once this happens its usually ok to put the mare back with her foal - but watch her if she starts again repeat the above , if they dont bond in 10 days or so, then its a foster mare or hand rearing, but I can say i've had this several times over the years and its always worked for me..
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Post by stormyskies on Apr 10, 2013 17:35:42 GMT
Thanks. She is on making a safe place for the foal
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 17:38:47 GMT
put the foal behind a barrier where the mare can see it but not get to it, make sure the mare is secure when they bring the foal to feed every 2 hrs or so, once the foal has fed put it back and make sure its safe. After a couple of days take the foal away - right away, see if she calls or the foal calls. If neither call put the foal back , and repeat until the foal calls and the mare returns the call once this happens its usually ok to put the mare back with her foal - but watch her if she starts again repeat the above , if they dont bond in 10 days or so, then its a foster mare or hand rearing, but I can say i've had this several times over the years and its always worked for me.. Brilliant advice |
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Post by stormyskies on Apr 10, 2013 18:38:39 GMT
The mare is very happy and motherly and protective of the foal, except when it goes to feed. She has accepted it etc, just, I am presuming, is clearly in pain
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Post by springtimes on Apr 10, 2013 19:24:39 GMT
A mare had a foal by our stallion a couple of years ago and it was the same situation the mare (maiden) wouldn't let it anywhere near her, her owners tried for a long time and were very knowledgable but the mare wouldn't entertain the foal when it came to feed time so they eventually had to bottle feed for the foals safety and the foal grew up beautifully, hope all goes well for them
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Post by Louise Dixon on Apr 10, 2013 19:55:54 GMT
put the foal behind a barrier where the mare can see it but not get to it, make sure the mare is secure when they bring the foal to feed every 2 hrs or so, once the foal has fed put it back and make sure its safe. After a couple of days take the foal away - right away, see if she calls or the foal calls. If neither call put the foal back , and repeat until the foal calls and the mare returns the call once this happens its usually ok to put the mare back with her foal - but watch her if she starts again repeat the above , if they dont bond in 10 days or so, then its a foster mare or hand rearing, but I can say i've had this several times over the years and its always worked for me.. I will keep this in mind in case I ever need it - hopefully I won't, but sounds like great advice. Good luck with the foal. |
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Post by honeypot on Apr 10, 2013 21:24:08 GMT
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Post by busymare on Apr 11, 2013 6:52:05 GMT
The mare is very happy and motherly and protective of the foal, except when it goes to feed. She has accepted it etc, just, I am presuming, is clearly in pain A random thought but is there any chance she has mastitis? (It is possible to get it without lactation so I guess it is possible this early on??) Just that it sounds like I felt when I had it! Hope things improve soon. |
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Post by penduk on Apr 11, 2013 8:05:20 GMT
I would pen the foal seperate to the mare and do as Jean has said. However I would have the mare tied up tight to the wall and tie up a front leg as well. I would continue to do this until the mare stopped trying any aggression, then I would try with the leg down. Again when no aggression slack the lead rope. Hopefully with time she will accept the suckling. This is how tb studs introduce foster mares except they also blindfold the mare.
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Post by lisadundee on Apr 11, 2013 8:06:56 GMT
The mare is very happy and motherly and protective of the foal, except when it goes to feed. She has accepted it etc, just, I am presuming, is clearly in pain A random thought but is there any chance she has mastitis? (It is possible to get it without lactation so I guess it is possible this early on??) Just that it sounds like I felt when I had it! Hope things improve soon. i know that mares can and do reject their foals and Mareish mares can be arsey about feeding at first but I also got mastitis when I had my second baby and the pain when trying to feed her was just unbearable, I know it's different but it might be a thought to ask a vet if this is possible and see if there's heat in and around her teats x |
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Post by lisadundee on Apr 11, 2013 8:07:51 GMT
I would pen the foal seperate to the mare and do as Jean has said. However I would have the mare tied up tight to the wall and tie up a front leg as well. I would continue to do this until the mare stopped trying any aggression, then I would try with the leg down. Again when no aggression slack the lead rope. Hopefully with time she will accept the suckling. This is how tb studs introduce foster mares except they also blindfold the mare. This is what I would do too x |
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Post by stormyskies on Apr 15, 2013 19:49:10 GMT
Thank you so much for all your advice. Sadly it didn't end well. The owner tried everything everyone suggested. When they were separated Jeanslater neither called at all, ever. Mare got more aggressive as days went on. Completely left foal in field, who lay down in corner by herself. Foal was terrified in stable, wouldn't lie down. So they made the decision to hand rear and today I took my beloved Shetland down, who I use with my weanlings, and introduced them. I left them in stable together with foal shaking in the corner. Had a text tonight to say she is running round stable 'talking' to him non stop and looks very happy. She is a week old and is drinking out of bucket so fingers crossed all will now go well A pic  Thanks again for all your advice. If anyone has any advice on hand rearing, it will be great fully received |
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Post by lisa on Apr 15, 2013 19:51:51 GMT
i have hand reared 2 foals i will pm you
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Post by ilovenatives on Apr 15, 2013 19:52:22 GMT
What a lovely pic  What a sweetheart your shettie must be . |
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Post by stormyskies on Apr 15, 2013 19:57:17 GMT
He is. He is also a little sh*t lmao! He was a rescue when he was a 2 yr old and has always been with my broodmares and foals. Worth his weight in gold! I will miss him this next 5 months but am very proud of him
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Post by 09rebel99 on Apr 15, 2013 19:58:59 GMT
Oh god love the little foaly. Well fingers crossed she builds up strength and trust in your little shetland.
Keep us updated xx
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Post by clifton on Apr 15, 2013 20:08:00 GMT
good luck i hope all goes well xx
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Post by Louise Dixon on Apr 15, 2013 20:14:42 GMT
Good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 12:28:16 GMT
good luck hope all goes well
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Post by barnfields on Apr 16, 2013 16:18:28 GMT
Hope everything goes well from now on, I think they have done the right thing to seperate the mare and foal, the stress on them both must have been awful, the foal will do better with a sensible foster dad,  |
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Post by stormyskies on Apr 16, 2013 16:32:14 GMT
Am not convinced sensible should be used in the same sentence as Bramble, lol
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