Healthy foal but not using the milk bar

[Guestless]

A friend's mare foaled late on Friday evening and the foal is a big bruiser of a colt.  However, he isn't trying very hard when it comes to taking milk from his mum.  Vet has been out a few times and he's been tubed 3 times and has had a plasma transfusion.  He's apparently healthy so doesn't have a dummy foal appearance.  He's trying to take milk from his mum now and again but doesn't appear to be swallowing it and just lets it drip all over the place.  He's having milk syringed every 2 hours just now so that is obviously an extremely time-consuming process but this will continue if it has to.

Mare retained part of the placenta so has been flushed a couple of times and is bright in herself and happy to let foal have a go.

Has anyone experience anything similar?  I'm hoping foal will eventually get the idea and latch on properly, but he's now a couple of days old and doing well apart from that.

[Grace]

No sorry but the first thing I thought of was cleft palate??

[gillwales]

Continue to syringe, (my secret weapon!) I had a foal that had Barkers and Wanders many years ago, I kept it up for 5 days, finally overslept and went running out to hear him sucking. Your friends can extend the every 2 hours to every 3. Don't use a substitute keep milking the mare.

If he fails to suckle off the mare then if they are happy together then leave them and introduce a milking bucket.

One tip for those with big foals, esp colts, milk the mare before the foal gets up and get a good half pint into them, it eases the milk bag, strengthens the foal , ensures the colostrum doesn't drip away.

good luck to your friends

[gillwales]

Jun 2, 2013 19:18:26 GMT Grace said:

No sorry but the first thing I thought of was cleft palate??

If the Vet has been I would assume that he/ she checked this however it is a valid thought. Keep sticking fingers in foals mouth to check on suckle reflex, it should be nice and strong

[Guestless]

Jun 2, 2013 19:21:22 GMT gillwales said:

Continue to syringe, (my secret weapon!) I had a foal that had Barkers and Wanders many years ago, I kept it up for 5 days, finally overslept and went running out to hear him sucking. Your friends can extend the every 2 hours to every 3. Don't use a substitute keep milking the mare.

If he fails to suckle off the mare then if they are happy together then leave them and introduce a milking bucket.

One tip for those with big foals, esp colts, milk the mare before the foal gets up and get a good half pint into them, it eases the milk bag, strengthens the foal , ensures the colostrum doesn't drip away.

good luck to your friends

Thanks Gill, that's helpful.  I've let friend know about your response so she can add any other info or correct anything I have got wrong.

[minithing]

Thank's for everyone's help on this

I don't think it's cleft palate as he has a good sucking reflex once he decides to latch onto the end of the syringe and he can managed to get the milk out without us slowly putting the plunger down, although it can sometimes be a struggle for him to accept the syringe! We keep trying to put him on the mare and we are managing to get the teat into his mouth but he just won't 'clamp' on and suck, it's so frustrating but we are ever hopeful their is a god! Can I ask exactly what you meand by Barkers and Wanders, I'm not sure what you mean by this but it is possibly due to the fact my brain is mush at the moment for being up more than 48hrs solid, I'm surprised I can still type, forgive any spelling mistakes please!

[gillwales]

Barkers and Wanders is a nervous disorder where the foal looses it's suckle reflex, the foal starts to wander around its box, or if in the field away from it's dam, has the disorder worsens the foal starts to make a sound that sounds like a cough. The cure was to get it to drink milk and suckle . My vet helped by tranquilizing the mare, she could be very foal proud, getting some milk down the foal, then the foal was given a mild sedative to stop it from blundering around, after that I had to continue milking the mare and feeding the foal, he said if the foal did not get it's suckle reflex back ( the suck not the getting it back onto the mare) then to take the foal to the surgery and he would PTS. Once again as your friend's Vet has been in attendance I will presume the foal is not suffering from this.

We tried to put the teat in the foal's mouth and that just did not work, I think if I had not overslept he would have been quite content for me to continue doing the work for him! If the mare is good then just take it in turns to milk and feed and get some rest yourselves. My mission was probably easier than yours as the foal was small enough to sit on my lap! Has the foal gets older extend the time between feeds up to 4 hours.

[sarahp]

I've never heard of Barkers and Wanders, what a lovely term, if not a lovely condition.

Never done this but my brain popped up with having read an account of how to get a calf to drink from a bucket by letting it latch on to your fingers and put fingers and foal's mouth under the surface - if yours will latch on to fingers can you get it to latch on to the teat at the same time? I'm sure once he realised that that's where milk comes from he should be OK. Or try squirting milk onto his mouth from the teat when he is near/on it?

[minithing]

Thanks Gill for your insight to this condition, I honestly haven't ever heard of it before.....certainly have now!!

Asked vet this morning and he had also came to the same conclusion, it is indeed Barkers and Wanders that he has but stage 1 and a very mild form of it, vet says stage 1 is caused by a traumtic birth which his most certainely was! His suckle reflex is very strong now and is getting cheekier by the hour, still not quiet managing to latch on but we have been hanging off it!! Maybe in the next 48 hours we might get a 'Eureka' moment!!! In the meantime he is bucket feeding very well and mare is allowing me to milk her on the hour...........just gone and splurged on an Equine Milk Expresser to make milk collection a bit quicker, my fingers are going numb, should be here first thing in the morning! Outcome for the boy is that he might latch on, he might not but as long as he is drinking/ eating he will grow up to be a normal and healthy boy....please and thank you god.

Thanks for everyone's help and I will certainley let you know if we have teh 'eureka' moment.

[minithing]

Just in case anyone is interested or it may help someone else who may experience the same thing here is an article on they syndrome, it has several 'posh names' like neonatal maladjustmenr syndrome and hypoxic ischemic encephalopathy or 'dummy foal' syndrome.

www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/2003/bernard/ivis.pdf

[gillwales]

Your welcome

Glad to be of help. I doubt anyone will have heard of it unless they had experience of it. The good thing is the older the foal gets the easier it will be for you, it can eat grass and foal creep not just milk. The only tip I will give you is that hand reared foals can be very bolshie, the best brood mares teach their babies manors and do not allow them to get everything on demand.

[stormyskies]

We had a mild dummy foal! He is now a very healthy month old colt who is sharp as a carrot now!

[sarahp]

I had a very mild one who quickly sorted herself out without any human intervention, just a bit clueless after we guessed a longish birth - she was a very big foal. The only lasting result was her name - she was know as Sandwich (as in "a sandwich short of a picnic....").

[Guestless]

I'm sure minithing won't mind me saying that foalie has now latched on so hopefully things will progress more smoothly from here on. :-) Thanks for your help and comments.

[sometime]

My last foal is now a healthy 4 year old but she took 24 hours to work out where the milk came from she followed me down where I was milking her mum and there was a lightbulb moment and everything was fine from there on in

Pleased he is doing well now and I hope he makes a wonderful adult horse in time they do usually as they are so imprinted by all the first handling they are not afraid of much at all if there is a person about that isnt scared they are reassured by it even when mum or other horses over react to things

[gillwales]

Jun 6, 2013 16:49:51 GMT Guestless said:

I'm sure minithing won't mind me saying that foalie has now latched on so hopefully things will progress more smoothly from here on. :-) Thanks for your help and comments.

really pleased to here this x

[sarahp]

Great news.