Really need help/advice please

[Em5]

Really at a loss now as to what to do.

My pony was in a wilki with a lozenge and has been fine for over a year, tried him every snaffle going but he's too strong for my daughter. He then started to mess with the jointed bits in his mouth and causing himself sores. So have had to use a straight bar magic bit. Problem I have is he just hangs on it and is too strong. I even got one with wilki sides but he's still like a tank......

Any advice in what I can do-try would be greatly appreciated. On the ground he's perfect with voice commands but ridden he's being a pain

[mellymoo]

Just a thought, but is his saddle still fitting? I only say they because you say he is fine on the ground. Hope you find a solution

[chalky284]

Just wondering if this is psychological/learned behaviour? If he has been sore in his mouth he may just be running from the pain? Grabbing his bit in an attempt to control the source of the pain? Hence no bit working. You may want to try bitless? See how he goes then? Can I assume you had hs back, teeth, poll etc checked out?

[Em5]

Hi

He's had everything checked including full vet chk and scoping to see if it could be stomach ulcers but all clear. Any jointed bit is causing sores and straight bar he's hanging on and is too strong :-(

Have thought about bit less but we wouldn't be allowed it for pony club or showing or dressage and would he be too strong in it for my 8 year old daughter?

Really at a loss with this

[Milliesmum]

Have you tried different mouthpiece materials, e.g. happy mouth, sweet iron etc., or one of the neue schule types? or bit wrap?

[sarahp]

Presumably your checks included his teeth?

[Em5]

Yeah he's had teeth done, they were fine anyway as only been done 6 months previous but still just smoothed them off.

He seems to have a severe reaction to the neue schule and it causes red sores!!

It's the inside he's causing himself sores by pulling the bit up and pinching it against his inside lip.

[Em5]

Uswd bit wrap but it made him play with the bit more :-(

[lulah]

I ride in a loose ring bombers happy tounge. Which is a ported straight bar. The port is more generous and forward cut than a magic bit . My pony doesnt lean on it.
Other mouthpieces that havent been said are cherry rollers and waterfords. Although I wouldnt really recomend them for a child rider.

Are you sure your daughter is riding with a light and steady contact?

If the magic bit is the only thing that hasnt rubbed then maybe stick with it anx try diffefent schooling excersises to combat the leaning.

Good luck

[gillwales]

have you tried a dr bristol?
how big is the pony?
maybe he is more of a second pony than a first and find her something she is comfortable with and can manage

[Em5]

No not tried a dr Bristol, he's strong as in heavy on the hands rather than tanking off or anything although he was keen jumping yesterday. We've had him 19 months and he's taken my daughter safely from lead rein to first ridden, taught her to canter and jump and done dressage and pony club, so he has been good, the issue has started since he started messing with his bit and causing himself sores!!!

Ill look into the dr Bristol

[Em5]

Oh and he's 11.3 so if anyone can recommend any schooling I can do from the ground or teach my daughter to stop the leaning and stop him faffing with the bit that would be great

[gillwales]

there is a method to stop a bolting horse, not sure if your daughter will have the balance to do this however..... put the hand holding the inside rein over the other side of the neck, lean down on it while sharply yanking up the other hand. Release and take another pull while maintaining the inside rein. ONLY use this when out of control, I do not usually advise yanking however in an emergency needs must. The Dr Bristol is a severe bit with a rectangular central link. It might be worth giving him a couple of weeks off to allow his mouth to heal, in fairness if his mouth hurts it is understandable if he is naughty

good luck

[Em5]

Thankyou gillwales his mouth has healed completely, if ridden in a straight bar his mouth is fine afterwards, but if I use a jointed bit it causes red bruise-rubs right inside his mouth.

He has never bolted he's just strong, I have put a bigger older rider on (12 year old who only weighs about 6 stone) and he really pulled her arms. Seems to be stronger with bigger riders on....

I finish my degree in 3 weeks so will have more time to put into correcting this and schooling, just need to sort a bit out that suits him and so far it's costing a fortune!

[gillwales]

if I was you I would turn him away until you have the time, a break may end the cycle and save your money. Give him a month and then personally I would try to find a different mount for your daughter, sell him making certain you advise his new owners. If he needs a straight bar then try a curbed bit, try and borrow one rather than buy.

[Guestless]

Jun 12, 2013 22:52:15 GMT lulah said:

Are you sure your daughter is riding with a light and steady contact?

Echo this.  Maybe as your daughter has become a better rider, she is looking for more from him and is perhaps holding him too much and he is objecting.  I would find a lightweight person who is a good rider to see if he plays up with them as well.

[Deleted]

If he was ok in the wilkie why have you changed it? I have found over the years those bits do cause problems, they seem to become unbalanced and hang back off them or grab them with their teeth to try to control the action, The wilkie seems to have a gag action which I personally think has them going behind the bit and after time they won't engage at all with them - this is just my opinion and some of my own friends poo poo my thoughts on them.

I have successfully schooled a pony that had gone similar to yours in a waterford snaffle at home then moved him onto a french link hanging snaffle, he is now a well balanced lad and is being shown and pony clubbed.

[Em5]

Hi

I changed bits because he started to mess around with the joint and he pulls the joint up in his mouth and causes bruising-sores on the inside of his mouth. I also wanted to find a dressage legal bit that suited him.

It seems any jointed bit he's messing with at the moment and causing sores even if my daughter rides in a log rein, he's forever playing with the bit even if he's just stood with just a bridle on!!

Regards the wilki Whilst I don't think the pony likes poll pressure it give that extra strength for a young rider and he certainly doesn't go over bent or even come I to the bridle in it for that matter. So it doesn't appear to have the affect on him that it maybe does in others.

I can't give pony time off as he needs to be worked sue to past lami, he is sound and for and well so this isn't the cause (regular vet checks).

The vet did mention him maybe having sensitive bars which may be why he's messing with the bit???

[thecobs]

I ride for people and the best bit I had for a leaner was a Waterford link hanging cheek. Not dressage legal but for schooling at home perfect! Not harsh but the links mean no leaning. Also grid work, just tiny raised poles in a 20m circle to make him listen, gather and bring his head down. Can't remember the distances as my sj days are long behind me but google should tell you. As for dressage legal I rode a monster of a welshie in a sweet iron bit, just a plain loose ring snaffle, she loved it and came right down instantly

[Em5]

Thankyou the cobs I will look into that bit, even if its for small training sessions in the school.

Will definitely use raised poles for concentration, good idea.

Sorry about previous typing been writing on my iPhone lol

[Em5]

Well pony had been very well behaved today at pony club. Was ridden in magic wilki in morning and was ok but the action makes his cheek pieces move forwards so I change to jointed but for jumping with flash and low and behold it caused bruising inside his mouth, his mouth was fine after using straight bar so we will have to stick to that and work through it.

He had been fab looking after his rider in a big open field never putting a foot wrong :-) even jumping a triple bounce

[gillwales]

glad to hear of things going well

[robrocks]

I have a Waterford wilkie to stop leaning and being too strong. I can ride with a light contact in this. When he leans and sets in the hand, I would do a downward transition. After a few strides go back up. Do this or change direction the minute the leaning starts. He may be just being lazy and avoiding real work. Echo worth back/saddle/teeth check though.

[Em5]

Wel fingers crossed we've found a bit he's settled in. It rubbed a little bit the first time but he was faffing with it for the first part of the lesson. Refusing to halt, was fine through his other transitions. By the end of the lesson he was halting beautifully and my daughter was relaxing straight away. Ridden in it 3 times since and so far so good, even jumped in it, and the best part of it is its only a full cheek d ring snaffle, with a normal joint and we're using a flash.

So fingers crossed we've found a bit he's happy in that he'll stop faffing with and won't rub