What is a good show?!

[smalley]

There've been a few comments on the results page, so I thought I'd make a moaning thread
After competing at the Great Yorkshire today I was wondering what judges actually look for in a good show. The top 10 in the fell/dales class was full of lovely ponies, however I was disappointed to see a lot of them hadn't done, in my opinion, a very good show. I thought the judge had purposely set a difficult show to cause problems, and it did - loads of ponies struck off on the wrong leg, cantered too early, changed legs in their gallop (across the diagonal) and spooked. Yet ponies that did this still got 46/47 for their show. Shouldn't a pony be penalised for any of these things, no matter how well they go the rest of the time? With it being an open HOYS qualifier I would say a small spook would be acceptable, or a strike off that's very quickly corrected, but only if the pony went perfectly for the rest of its show.

I'm not saying the ponies weren't stunning, because they were, and they went beautifully. And just for the record, this is a rant/question in general, the Yorkshire show was just an example!
I don't have sour grapes either, I was delighted with my scores

Opinions - what should people be marked down for? And should a pony that strikes off on the wrong leg beat a pony that didn't?

[Kerbeck]

Who knows? I too was there today and am completely baffled by the set show but then complete disregard of the failure for so many to do it well! I did think the ponies that made such big mistakes and sometimes multiple ones must have made up marks on conf until I saw the sheets! As you say scoring up to 47 for spooks and wrong legs!

I never moan about judging and have always believed you pay your entry and you take your chance but I really felt for those that did a good mannerly show and stood on the back row.

I've really lost interest in showing hence why I mostly dressage now but Yorkshire is my favourite show by far and I'm glad I saved my money! A ridden class isn't a performance class if this is happening and it's getting worse

I also agree classes full of lovely true to type ponies but unfortunately many just didn't perform today

[chalky284]

What was the set show?? Out if interest!

[georgina1411]

It was trot up the long side in front of the grandstand canter by the end of the grandstand on the straight Line extend across the diagonal trot canter as you got back to the edge of the ring canter that half of fig of eight the stop not much after, if that makes sense? (the trot away from the judge was not watch was just picked up as u hit the long side)

[gillwales]

I have an issue with the incorrect leads in canter. The trouble is it is a very visible "fault"but for me far from the worse a horse or pony can do, especially if I see it is down to rider error. Going behind the bit, not using it's hind quarters, incorrect bend through the corners for example are all far worse issues yet these rarely seem to be picked up on. This is not about the Great Yorkshire but shows in general

[mandmgirl0164]

If the mark is out of 50, surely it is feasible that 3 or 4 marks were deducted for the wrong leg episode - as GW says, there are lots of other things that can go wrong that riders/spectators are more than happy to overall look/not see at all. Just because an animal has gone on the right leg x2, doesn't mean it has done a 'perfect' show - far from it in many cases.

[Kerbeck]

Yes I agree a quickly corrected wrong leg and otherwise foot perfect show is not the worst thing in the world however, yesterday we are talking, ponies that didn't gallop, cantered early, had incorrect bend, threw their heads, changed legs in the extension. Several ponies made multiple mistakes too for example a major spook and a change of leg and scored 47 whilst two seasoned exceptional examples of the breed (1 BOB at Olympia, hoys and rihs qualifier, the other been to hoys and rihs) stood on the back row after brilliant shows and unfortunately after looking at the marks they scored significantly less for ride! Leaves a bitter taste for me but as I say at least I didn't waste my time and money entering!

[badlive]

I would just like. To say that yes some of the ponies did make mistakes. But nothing major and they were ponies at the bottom of the line that went beautifully and did not get placed and I honestly don't know why however I think that some things that have been said have been slightly exaggerated and that if you made a minor mistake and you got a place would you not accept it because you made a mistake? No. So I don't think it fair it's not the Ponies or the jockeys fault if they got a place also some of the ponies that got placed that made mistakes went beautifully in the rest of their show and had a very consistent way of going but people fail to notice this while complaining, and some of the people who appeared to do good shows did not actually do what the judge asked and the Ponies who made mistakes did actually do the show they were asked to do which resulted in minor mistakes

Just wanted to say x

[chalky284]

Thanks Georgina, I suppose they wanted people to keep it short!

[georgina1411]

Yes the pony before you was finishing-its show by the time you reached the long side so it worked very well getting through them, however there were quiet a few large obvious mistakes that still received 46 + for there shows! I am all for the odd minor mistake but then a foot perfect show only loosing maybe a couple of marks and being forgiven but surely there is a limit to the "minor" aspect, it does get a little disheartening but, that's showing as they say!

[Admin]

What showing needs are judges to judge the ridden side of things that actually know how a ridden pony should go. I have witnessed many judges put up ponies on an appalling show, when you look at the track record of the majority of these judges they have never ridden before. Unless these problems are addressed more people will eventually decide not to bother exhibiting their ponies.

[gillwales]

the only way to deal with this is to vote with your feet, if you know a judge marks erratically do not enter the shows that use them. Also if you feel a Judge marks in this way write to the society and inform them.

[georgina1411]

Melons I have been back on the mark sheet and from the ride conformation marks that i can work out are all correct for the top of the placings? But I may be wrong, so please don't quote me :-)

[nuggets]

They are all correct from what I can see I have worked them out

[melons]

I can't see a mistake either Georgina. I may too be wrong. I have deleted my long rant as I can't frankly be bothered. Good luck everyone there are some beautiful ponies on the circuit at the moment Onwards and upwards

[georgina1411]

Melons I don't think it's aimed at anybody or any pony in particular my comments for one certainty are not! I think it's is just a recurring problem, as you say it is not the competitor or the animal at fault..Your little fell is looking really well good luck for the rest of the season to you and everybody :-)

[melons]

Thankyou Georgina I know that . It's just sometimes you have a good day and you pop the computer on and u feel like the comments people make take away from it. We ve all been there Me included are you Georgina with the gorgeous fell ? Xx

[georgina1411]

I was 5th yesterday think we spoke to you at osbaldeston?

[melons]

Yes thought so. Beautiful pony lets hope it's our days soon x x

[georgina1411]

Hopefully I have been in the top 5 in every qual- ri and hoys so far so hopefully one day soon we will get there! Good luck and see you soon no doubt :-)

[sarahp]

This is a general comment - I don't comment on any specific show/judge/competitor.

But going back to smalley's original question - like gillwales I would prefer to see a show when the basics of correct going are established, in terms of correct outline ie on the bit and moving from behind, correct bend on corners and neat obedient transitions. And if I judged, which I don't, I'd like to see competitors try to show off here and there with say a terrific balanced extended trot or a great gallop. I suppose in general rewarding what is good rather than just down marking for individual mistakes. And my favourite beef - whatever happened to the walk? A good walk would be the first essential for me.

Nothing like sticking my neck out! I so agree too with Admin about judges who know how ridden ponies should go.

[titch]

SarahP when i competed in a Sports pony class the judge said my pony won on her walk. She said without a good walk you have nothing.My pony can out walk most horses and she is only 13 2 and does not rush just relaxed and strides out too many people spoil the walk.

[gillwales]

I quite agree with SarahP that a walk it very important, it reflects good schooling and good basic paces, you can tell more when looking at a horse by the walk than anything else. I also HATE the trend to let show animals fall out of canter into walk... very bad practice!

[phibbles]

Well my daughter rode in a hoys qual yesterday and it was a set show. I was not there but was told, the first two placed did the set show wrongly, 1st had head in the air, 2nd wrong legged and swapped legs. My daughter did a foot perfect show and so far has been in top five in the early strong qualifers, but was placed near the bottom. I am pleased though that others in the class and also spectators told my daughter and the person producing the pony, that she should have won. At least some people can see. That's showing for you, so always another show.

[sarahp]

I can remember an interview years ago in H&H with a pinhooker (who buys young TBs to resell later) that if one walks like a West Indian cricketer he buys it but if it walks like an English one he doesn't! I see what he means - that long, loose effortless movement - mind you the current test match shows that our English boys can do the business anyway!

[welshiegirl]

maybe because the show was such a different show the judges didn't feel that penalizing for the change of leg in gallop/ wrong leg wasn't needed? I don't know lol!

[redwhiteblue]

I agree with Sarahp in that I'd rather see a well balanced pony with the correct bend, working from behind. However, I also think that a difficult set show should serve the purpose to sort out the men from the boys so to speak? My personal opinion is that at that level, ponies should be making minimal mistakes and should be well schooled and well balanced enough to cope reasonably well with difficult circumstances (whether that be a set show or ground conditions, etc).