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Post by welshiegirl on Jul 27, 2013 13:14:03 GMT
Having watched bbc this morning I am thoroughly disgusted with these electric shock dog collars.
How can the company say that this does not harm them? It is ELECTRIC. There is a reason why equestrians use electric fencing to prevent horses from escaping, a reason why high security has electric fencing because it HARMS and PREVENTS escape!
Dog owners who use these electric shock collars are very lazy! They should spend time training dogs, and if they can only control them with an electric collar then the dog clearly is too dangerous!
I just do not see in any possible way how these can be justified, even on the smallest voltage I'd like to see these people who create it put it on there neck and round their throat, and suddenly get electrocuted for doing something perceived as 'wrong' it is sick and not right, and should be banned because it's cruel and painful!!!!
Rant over!
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Post by fanfarefan on Jul 27, 2013 17:20:56 GMT
Im sorry but i have to disagree , if an electric fence is ok for a horses , why is it not ok for a dog , now im talking 12V , not off the mains , ,,,,, i would far rather my dog had a small electric shock than be run over by a car, because hes got out of the field again ,,, i unfortunately do not not have a system in place to prevent my dogs getting out of the fields , but we are at the end of a dead end road , but there are still cars , and if i could afford a system then i would have one !!!!!
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Post by gilbertgrape on Jul 27, 2013 17:55:51 GMT
If a horse touches an electric fence shocks him- he hates it but he learns its a bad idea to touch it. I've learnt that too!!
I can't see how an electric collar stops a dog being run over. Does it stop him in his tracks? Surely you have to know he's somewhere dangerous.
I have never seen one in use so don't know how a dog reacts.
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Post by welshiegirl on Jul 27, 2013 18:33:49 GMT
Sorry but how is an electric fence like a electric shock collar! A horse touches it once and learns an electric dog collar electrocutes the dog everytime you press it! If your dog runs off then you should teach it properly instead of a collar which will cause unnecessary pain! Don't let your dog off if you can't trust it not to run away! Or let it out on enclosed space so it can't!
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Post by welshiegirl on Jul 27, 2013 18:34:29 GMT
A horse has a choice to touch an electric fence, a dog has no choice in being electrocuted!
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Post by choppytrotty on Jul 27, 2013 19:39:16 GMT
I understand where yu are coming from but we had a little dog who was very irresponsive and would not come to our call, and would wee on the female dog when it got to the yard. He is not aggressive, but is very sweet and sometimes he had selective hearing. We popped the collar on and as soon as he cocked his leg we shocked him, only lightly, which taught him. The collar also had a buzz on it so if we called him and he didn't come it vibrated, then again if he still wasn't listening. I think if it is used in the correct way then it is fine, I'd rather that than him running off and getting into trouble. Needless to say he is very obedient now and comes to our call etc... xxx
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Post by Jessica on Jul 27, 2013 19:55:26 GMT
Sorry but how is an electric fence like a electric shock collar! A horse touches it once and learns an electric dog collar electrocutes the dog everytime you press it! If your dog runs off then you should teach it properly instead of a collar which will cause unnecessary pain! Don't let your dog off if you can't trust it not to run away! Or let it out on enclosed space so it can't! You can get electric dog collar systems where you bury a cable at the edge of your property line and when the dog goes to escape over it they get shocked. The dog has to be taught properly how it works and I think you use white posts to mark the line for a while so they know where it is. Never used it personally, but have heard from people that it is very good. This is very similar to the horse fencing really, but not the sort of collars you are talking about I think! |
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Post by silvester on Jul 27, 2013 20:29:43 GMT
A Doberman that comes onto my yard has one, he is well trained and sweet and friendly but barks non stop. Yes this is probably his nature but its horrible!
Strangers find it very intimidating and it's loud and does not stop! The poor owner has tried everything and uses an electric collar to zap him in response to a bark. It does work, but the batteries do not last long! She has tried a collar that gives a puff of scent which is nicer but not so effective and he is often muzzled instead, but what's worse for him?
How can you train an adult dog not to bark when that's all he wants to do?!
Due to his breed, if he does go running towards a stranger barking, it's very very scarey. When he's quiet it's much more friendly
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Post by chocolove on Jul 28, 2013 4:52:57 GMT
I also think they have a place, but used properly and not abused. We grew up on an estate and there was a jack who had been trained from wee as he was a working dog. But he was obsesses by cows! Even when he almost got kicked to death still went back! If not for the shock collar he'd have been mince meat. I have friends with the ones round their garden as the dogs seem to be related to escape artists.... Abuse of the collar I don't agree with but sometimes they are an owners last resort. And like its mentioned it 12v not mains. I've had a mains shock, and tried the electric collar on my wrist to see just how bad it was ( things we do when we r young!!) it was more of a static shock.
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Post by welshiegirl on Jul 28, 2013 7:34:41 GMT
I can see the point about the escape one but none of the others, in regards to the dog barking its in its nature so leave it be!
The jack Russell shouldn't of been let off anywhere neat afield, far enough if it keeps escapin but dog owners should be more responsible! A lady on y yard has had her garden puppy escaped proof, which yes she's payed for and I understand that not everyone could affor it but I still believe that you could train a dog without shock collars.
It may have been around you wrist but not around your neck, things would be a lot different if it could go around a dogs paw.
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Post by kayleigh on Jul 28, 2013 8:12:04 GMT
We have an electric boundary fence and its the best thing ever. The dogs wear collars and when they get within a meter of the fence they get a beeped warning which gets louder as they get nearer then they get a shock if they cross the line. We had the people who installed the fence come and train the dogs on its use and they learn very quickly, I think they only got zapped once, keeps themm out the fields (my big German shepherd once got kicked in the head and we nearly lost him!), out if the way of the school and most importantly keep the jack Russell's who whatever fencing I used managed to get over it/through/under away from the road and the public, they can be pretty aggressive and wouldn't like to think they'd caused someone harm! I don't even think the batteries are still going in the collars but none of them ever attempt to go near the boundaries anymore
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Post by maxandpaddy on Jul 28, 2013 8:53:56 GMT
it doesnt matter how much you train 'some' dogs in open fields they are born to run! We have a red setter who needs a lot of exercise and has been trained right from being 8weeks old but if shes in an open field and sees a rabbit or similar ...shes off and doesnt care if that includes crossing roads!
I've looked into the electric colours and we're going to buy one with a buzzer, I'l work on teaching her to come to the buzzer in the garden with treats then extend the distance gradually. But shes a setter shes stupid...used properly the electric colour is a teaching aid.
I'm not just going to zap her for fun....its there if needed though
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Post by redwhiteblue on Jul 28, 2013 10:23:22 GMT
Hmmm I'm not a fan of these either. Aren't they actually illegal in Wales, or have I just made that up?
I just don't understand why people would substitute a decent dog proof fence for an electric dog collar. I know exactly how it feels to own a dog that is born to run and has selective hearing - I have a husky and you're not even supposed to be able to ever let them off the lead, as they have such a high prey drive, they get distracted ridiculously easily. My personal opinion is that if you buy a dog with this sort of history and nature, you should have a dog proof yard/garden to begin with. Otherwise perhaps that choice of dog breed is not right for your lifestyle.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Jul 28, 2013 10:38:53 GMT
Hmmm I'm not a fan of these either. Aren't they actually illegal in Wales, or have I just made that up? I just don't understand why people would substitute a decent dog proof fence for an electric dog collar. I know exactly how it feels to own a dog that is born to run and has selective hearing - I have a husky and you're not even supposed to be able to ever let them off the lead, as they have such a high prey drive, they get distracted ridiculously easily. My personal opinion is that if you buy a dog with this sort of history and nature, you should have a dog proof yard/garden to begin with. Otherwise perhaps that choice of dog breed is not right for your lifestyle. They are illegal in Wales. Used correctly I am sure that as with all things they have their place, and I have seen dogs which they have been used on and have made huge improvements. However I have also seen dogs where they have not worked and have compounded the original problem. Personally speaking they are not something that I would use, but each to their own. |
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Post by fanfarefan on Jul 28, 2013 13:04:41 GMT
im talking about the collar and boundary fence system ,as mentioned above , and as with horses they learn not to touch or go over it , and i can see that the other collars have their place if absolutely neccesary,,,, as for suitability of dog ,, i have rescued both of mine , and whilst obedient , they are terriers , and if it moves they will chase it , and even with sheep fencing round the fields they will get out
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jul 28, 2013 14:59:18 GMT
We have a rescue saluki (not very bright dogs!) with a huge prey drive who can jump a 6' fence, chases anything that moves and turns his ears and brain off when chasing anything. I wish our garden had a 6' wall all round it but it doesn't, we have a large garden with 9 openings in the fence for various gates and would need 6' deer fencing to keep him in - that's assuming no-one left any of the 9 gates open. It's fenced fine for our non-jumping lurcher, once we lowered the bottom bar of some gates as she would limbo underneath, but useless for the younger dog. We took him to training classes and asked advice about the boundary fence/electric collar system, not that I'm that keen on the idea, but were advised it would not work for him - if he saw say a rabbit he would be off at top speed, which for him is very fast, and over the boundary and zapped on the way before he could think twice. He would then be too terrified to come back even if he wanted to so would stay outside and lost.
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Oriana
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by Oriana on Jul 28, 2013 15:20:32 GMT
I use the electric collar system for my beagle. We have a very large garden and she kept escaping no matter how high we made the fence as she is a great climber! The solution was leaving her indoors while we were out. I decided to try the collar and I did extensive training with her showing her the flag markers. It gives her warning beeps if she goes too close. Now she can be out all day whether I'm there or not and a lot of the time she doesn't need to wear the collar as she knows her boundaries. She goes on walks every day outside of the garden and I lift her over the boundary so she knows this is the only way beyond the boundary. I cannot recommend it highly enough.
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Post by chocolove on Jul 28, 2013 16:32:05 GMT
Welshiegirl the jackrussel is a working dog ... Not a family pet, that is kept on a working estate to do the job it is bred for.... Catching rats. So dog leads are not something that tends to be used on big estates.
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Post by welshiegirl on Jul 28, 2013 16:47:36 GMT
we had a part terrier and hunting grey hound on the yard, they were working dogs and taught to catch rats but they were well trained enough not to go after anything but the rats.
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Post by chocolove on Jul 28, 2013 17:16:35 GMT
Clearly not an argument/ discussion that can be had. Answer for everything.
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Post by welshiegirl on Jul 28, 2013 17:34:12 GMT
I do have an answer for everything as it's my opinion. I do respect other peoples opinions but it is a discussion they're giving their side and I'm giving a counter side to that. Sorry if you don't like it.
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Post by Philippa on Jul 28, 2013 17:48:45 GMT
The owners of a TB stud on which I worked had 5 dogs. 2 labs both workers, a Yorkie (didn't go further than back door) and 2 cardigan corgi's. the corgi's were a nightmare and they installed the boundary fencing and on went the collars. Those blooming dogs went through that boundary line every chuffing day and were the bain of my life as it was usually my job to go and collect them from wherever they had travelled to on their escapades!!' One time some kind people found them 5 mins from our place at the top of Sutton bank just outside thirsk and promptly took them home to Scarborough to their local police station. Her thanks guys. That was a trip out to fetch the pigging things!!!!'
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Post by welshiegirl on Jul 28, 2013 18:04:55 GMT
I can understand that one Phillipa!
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Post by chocolove on Jul 28, 2013 19:54:39 GMT
I can see the point about the escape one but none of the others, in regards to the dog barking its in its nature so leave it be! The jack Russell shouldn't of been let off anywhere neat afield, far enough if it keeps escapin but dog owners should be more responsible! A lady on y yard has had her garden puppy escaped proof, which yes she's payed for and I understand that not everyone could affor it but I still believe that you could train a dog without shock collars. It may have been around you wrist but not around your neck, things would be a lot different if it could go around a dogs paw. You are more then entitled to your personal opinion but I would say the above is judgement. People have read your thread and taken the time to explain why they have or people they know have felt the need to use an electric collar. Personally and this is my personal opinion. That I can understand why you do not agree with them as you have never been in a situation that may call for one. However not everyone is so lucky. |
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Post by ruftytuftyrider on Jul 29, 2013 20:51:05 GMT
I must admit I do not like electric collars as I think they are open to misuse ie to stop a barking! I would be extremely concerned if someone used a collar to stop a dog barking - the Doberman barking seems to me a problem with the people and their misconception ie a large dog barking is aggressive - would they have the same view of a jack Russell barking?
We have had dogs since I was born and have never had to use one. We did have one Labrador that was difficult to get to come back to you if let off the lead - we had an extendable lead but also never went out without some doggie treats in pocket because her desire for food always won over in the end!
I can see the logic of the electric boundary more as this is more like an electric fence but the Labrador just down the road from our pony's field used to escape from the garden despite there being an electric boundary - very friendly and would follow you back home but she escapes on a practically daily basis.
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Post by workinghuntering on Aug 12, 2013 13:42:42 GMT
I'm sorry but I'm going to disagree with the original post. We have a spaniel, and during it's younger years, had a thing about taking itself off around the acres of land surrounding us. Now we're lucky in that we have enough land that we can take the dogs round it without having to go into public places or roads. We spent months attempting to train it, then had a trainer in, and all to no avail. We were then introduced to an electric collar by another trainer, and after using it a handful of times on a low setting when we could see she was about to run off and then just onto a setting which gave the noise (but not the shock as such), have never had to deal with a lost dog for the past five years. Frankly, if it stops her running off for hours at a time, getting herself into trouble or risking hurting herself, then I'm glad we used it. We weren't 'lazy' in trying to train her, and she got plenty of exercise on a daily basis. Some dogs are just nose before brain and no amount of training will prevent them taking themselves off.
I don't agree in using it for barking, but used correctly and with knowledge, it can help curb a problem (such as running off), which can have disastrous consequences.
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wilbs
Full Member
Posts: 246
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Post by wilbs on Aug 12, 2013 15:07:27 GMT
A horse has a choice to touch an electric fence, a dog has no choice in being electrocuted! It has the choice to modify its behaviour so it does not get a shock. There are some dogs that for their own safety and as a last resort I see no problem with an electric collar. Sometimes training just does not work and if you look closely at some of the difficult dog programmes you might see an electric collar being used. I had a lab and despite serious training with professional gundog trainers and intensive work by myself, she was always a rabbit hunter. I did consider an electric collar as sometimes although I let her off the lead when I thought she would be safe, and have her close, she would sometimes she would still clear off. She ended up after one such episode under a lorry. Now if I had used an electric collar she might not have. In correct hands there is nothing wrong with these collars. I have seen worse equipment put on horses. |
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