wilkies?

[natlee93]

After reading a few posts on here and also Facebook I'm a little confused at why everyone seems to be so anti wilkie like I'm curious as to the reasoning?

I own a fair few wilkies of.different shapes and ssizes I normally break in a loose ring snaffle use the wilkie as a training aid to ride them away for a couple of months just to remind them to come back down and work from underneath (I'm very light handed so my ponies tend to not like pressure on their mouth or too much contact) then they go back to the loose ring much better than they were in the first place I never use them as a constant bit but curious as to why people hate them?

[caies]

I think that wilkies, like all bits, have their place, but I hate seeing them being used as a snaffle, especially in FR classes.

All dressage horses have to compete in a snaffle (or snaffle bradoon), so I find it crazy that show horses are not also expected to be schooled in a correct way through classical training methods. Obviously no-one knows what goes on behind closed doors, but I believe that the horses who will go in to have most success in any discipline are those who have been schooled slowly and correctly, teaching hindquarter engagement rather than forcing it through a bit.

As I mentioned, though, they do have their place, and if it works for your horse then great! Enjoy your horses. I just tend to think that showing is a discipline which SHOULD demonstrate a proper way of going, something which I don't believe a Wilkie bit allows.

I think that the pressure to achieve a competition record with a horse very early in its career is the cause for rushed schooling, something that I don't think will change, unfortunately!

[sarahp]

Great post caies, I'm with you all the way!

A correct outline comes from behind, not by pulling in from the front, or as dressage trainer says - moving from front wheel drive to 4WD to rear wheel drive!

As far as I can see the only place for a wilkie is for childrens' ponies as occasional extra brakes in stressful situations, much as a kimblewick used to be used - my daughter hunted her C in a kimblewick but used a snaffle for everything else.

Those of us long in the tooth and brought up through classical schooling methods recognise that wilkies are gags not snaffles, ie they use poll pressure to make the pony bend at the poll and tuck its nose in without going in a correct outline working from behind, and used long term can teach a pony to go behind the bit and lean on it - a very difficult fault to correct later.

[WKponies]

I must say I've also been interested in the pros and cons of wilkies being relatively new to the showing world particularly for LR and FR ponies.

I was recently advised at a show by another competitor that I should put our FR pony in a wilkie. However, when I had previously tried our pony in one I found it made him very behind the bit and had a negative effect on his way of going. I decided to go against what seems to be the norm in FR classes and reverted to the lose ring snaffle. He now goes much better although granted his head isn't shoved down but he's more forward and working better.

[flo1]

Any bit is only as kind as the hands holding the reins attached to it.

IMO the bigger cause of a pony not working correctly from behind is the use of draw reins which do as much  damage to a pony's way of going as an incorrectly used bit. It's a common sight on the showground to see adults warming up children's ponies with their heads strapped in with draw reins and these are more commonly seen in the showground than Wilkie bits (and they are leverage bits rather than gags). As I've said in a previous post Wilkies are really an updated version of a Uxeter Kimblewick without a curb chain/strap.

A dressage horse/pony is alone in the arena but in the showring there may be 30 others in there. It's a more stressful environment for both horse and rider so it's hardly surprising that sometimes a little more control is needed. It shouldn't be assumed that a particular bit is being used in place of correct schooling, there may be a legitimate reason for it's use.

[WKponies]

Perhaps there is some legitimate uses for wilkies but in the case of LR and FR ponies surely the whole point is that they shouldn't get fizzy, strong and stressed in those situations because they should be true safe and sane child's ponies? Like I said I'm new and naive to the showing world and really dislike seeing strapped in ponies with adults on their backs.

It does seem a sensible option to follow suit with Dressage and have a list of approved bits for showing.

Hopefully the next clamp down will then be on adults riding in little ponies :-)

[caies]

I totally agree about hard hands, flo1. Unfortunately that is a problem which societies could not easily rectify since it is a technique problem. I too hate to see ponies with their heads strapped to their necks with draw reins, but it is usually easy to see which ones have been schooled in this way by their outline (usually behind the bit rather than towards it) - even if they're in a snaffle in the ring!

Clairebell made a great point regarding LR and FR - these ponies should be impeccably behaved in all situations. Flo1 you mentioned the use of a Wilkie as a means of extra control; if a horse is running and needing to be held in place by a stronger bit, then it is not relaxed at the poll and thus not round through its back and moving freely.

The horse should seek the contact and be ridden forward to that contact rather than the rider seeking the horse - if that makes sense! Yes, there are no other horses in the dressage ring, but it can take place in big arenas with music and clapping etc. which is equally as exciting I would say.

Perhaps I am old-fashioned in my opinions on bits, but I am quite new to showing, having done more BD/BE before. From what I have seen, I too would welcome a list of bits allowed under different societies.

[flo1]

With regards to dressage legal bits, my retired gelding has a large fleshy tongue and the only bit he was truly comfortable with was the Sprenger Correction bit (Basically a loose ring snaffle with a wide ported mouthpiece) this bit has loads of room for his tongue and he was always relaxed and went really well in it.
Unfortunately this bit is not dressage legal It seems ridiculous to me that you can't compete in a bit that your horse prefers.
I certainly agree that LR and FR should be well behaved in all situations (but no pony is truly bombproof) and I don't advocate the use of wilkies in these classes.
Although dressage may take place in large noisy arenas, with all the distractions that may bring it's not comparable with a ring full of cobs thundering around in the go round especially when you add in those that have no knowledge of ring etiquette meaning that you have to think for them as well as yourself. Such situations are not conducive to a relaxed way of going

Wilikie bits always seem to be singled out for criticism, Have you seen some of the bits used in ShowJumping???

[fanfarefan]

alot of the LR FR ponies are stunning looking animals amd have a pedigree to die for , but they are not childrens ponies they are mini TB 's in disguise amd then inexperienced nervous tots are put on board amd expected to ride them , hence a stronger bit . It seems to me that the days of breeding suitable albeit not so attractive childrens ponies has long gone , which is such a shame

[sarahp]

Well some of us still try to breed lovely ponies that ARE suitable for small children! Maybe though they have gone to families whose first priority is the safety and pleasure of their children rather than the possible show ring winnings?

[honeypot]

Because the Wilkie has fixed points for the cheek pieces and the reins, it has a levering effect on the poll so I would class it as a curb bit, like a Pelham, kimblewick, etc. So using pressure on the poll it lowers the ponies head which you can say is not a bad thing but combined with fixed hands or a rider that is using the reins for balance will cause the pony to fall behind the bridle to avoid the constant pressure. You want the pony to step underneath it towards the hand and the resistant or lack of it in the hand controls the forward movement. Constant pressure on the ponies mouth also can lead to a fixed neck, its the easiest way for the pony to avoid the pain/pressure. You end up with a pony not stepping under, why would it want to go a fixed point, and if you look in the show ring the ponies have a fixed bent head carriage but the hind legs are trailing behind and a lot have no forward movement so become 'stuffy'. You could say this is a hard concept for a small child to understand but the sooner they understand that a pony has to go forward and they must control the pony using their legs first and not pull the front when they get on to the harder stuff it all slots into place.
I've had small children so I know how had it is for them to handle a pony that's not cooperating but chasing the 'nose on chest' look to create a picture is only a short term solution.

[flo1]

All these negative responses are assuming that the rider is either a) unable to ride with an independent seat or b) a small child.

The OP didn't specify LR, FR or novice riders in her question.

[natlee93]

Jun 29, 2014 13:33:39 GMT flo1 said:

All these negative responses are assuming that the rider is either a) unable to ride with an independent seat or b) a small child.

The OP didn't specify LR, FR or novice riders in her question.

This I'd very true, seems like most of the negatives with wilkies come from lr and fr ponies and possibly long term useage I think I've decided to carry on using them as a training aid not a permanent bit or quick fix my contact is very light so they don't fall behind as they are still schooled to work fron their hind

[bubbles1822]

We use a Wilkie bit with copper rollers set into it for the ponies as we start schooling them... There are worst bits out there and what your ponies work in well shouldn't matter too much. I was talking to a few judges about this recently and most say as long as the pony is stepping though using it's back end and happy in it's mouth they are not bothered about the bit in its mouth.. They would rather see a happy pony than a pony who's mouth is being sawed at by a 'kinder' bit...
I know most people want the perfect pony who simply goes in a snaffle or normal double but we as humans don't all like the same shoe for example so why should the ponies all go in the same bit??

[sarahp]

There are two parts of a bit - the mouthpiece, which has to fit the pony's mouth conformation, and the sidepieces which determine its action and they need to be considered separately.