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Post by New to all this on Jul 9, 2014 4:47:51 GMT
This is just an observation from yesterday's GYS coloured classes, the judges did not appear to write anything down, or if they did I didn't notice. How can they remember all the individuals shows when the numbers,are so large , in the unders class hairies which I normally love to watch I was quite disappointed there were lots of mediocre individual show and only a couple stood out both the for wrong and right reasons everything else just seemed to blend into one. Are there Mark sheets available for County shows none HOYS classes.
Not judge bashing or anything just commending them on their powers of recall
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Post by jimjim on Jul 9, 2014 5:07:32 GMT
I am pretty certain it will have been judged on marks.
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Post by no on Jul 9, 2014 8:54:17 GMT
No marks used at gys.
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Post by pipandwill on Jul 9, 2014 20:25:24 GMT
This really frustrates me. At royal Windsor for example, in the coloureds no marks were used, how can they remember the conformation and ride in detail of 20 odd coloureds. Its ridiculous, it just turns into a lime up of what the judge actually likes, rather than how it has gone or its conformation.
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Post by Cefn farm Horses on Jul 10, 2014 7:54:06 GMT
This really frustrates me. At royal Windsor for example, in the coloureds no marks were used, how can they remember the conformation and ride in detail of 20 odd coloureds. Its ridiculous, it just turns into a lime up of what the judge actually likes, rather than how it has gone or its conformation. but that is showing. The line up whether on marks or without is based on a judges opinion which is formed on what they like. You take your horse for the opinion of the judge sometimes you agree with them sometimes you dont
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Post by jimjim on Jul 10, 2014 8:10:49 GMT
I don't understand. Why no marks. I thought all Hoys coloured classes judged on marks. Can someone enlighten me as I don't do these classes.
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Post by overatdaknee on Jul 10, 2014 8:37:11 GMT
JimJim- I am pretty sure the Coloureds at GYS were not HOYS qualifiers x
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Post by DidWell on Jul 10, 2014 8:39:06 GMT
The GYS coloureds are not HOYS qualifiers, thats why they didn't use marks.
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Post by madicarus on Jul 10, 2014 19:18:54 GMT
CHAPS use marks for HOYS qualifiers, BSPA do not use marks for RI qualifiers---hope that helps1
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Post by pipandwill on Jul 11, 2014 9:50:14 GMT
[quote so urce="/post/1305809/thread" timestamp="1404937524" author=" pipandwill"]This really frustrates me. At royal Windsor for example, in the coloureds no marks were used, how can they remember the conformation and ride in detail of 20 odd coloureds. Its ridiculous, it just turns into a lime up of what the judge actually likes, rather than how it has gone or its conformation. but that is showing. The line up whether on marks or without is based on a judges opinion which is formed on what they like. You take your horse for the opinion of the judge sometimes you agree with them sometimes you dont[/quote] Yes i know, but when you have a class of 15-20 coloureds, and no marks are used, a buck here, a wrong leg there, a splint or whatever, how can they possibly remember? It will always come down to te pony they like, regardless of if there is a pony who isnt the judges fave but has gone well and has good conformation. It just doesnt make sense not to use marks.
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Post by good memory on Jul 11, 2014 10:50:22 GMT
I find it fairly easy to judge with no marks, but I prefer to pull the exhibits in after the go round, so you already have an initial order based on first impressions and how they went all together. You are comparing each horse, one against the next, in that class, on that day. If the first horse does a good show and on closer inspection has good conformation, great. If the next one does a better show compared to the first, depending on conformation, it may go up. If one does a poor show, or has poorer conformation than at first thought, it will be moved down accordingly, how far depends on the performance/conformation of the rest of the class. If one lower down the line does well and has correct conformation, it will be brought up. I would find it much harder to remember without the initial pull a big class.
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Post by Really... on Jul 11, 2014 12:36:59 GMT
I find it fairly easy to judge with no marks, but I prefer to pull the exhibits in after the go round, so you already have an initial order based on first impressions and how they went all together. You are comparing each horse, one against the next, in that class, on that day. If the first horse does a good show and on closer inspection has good conformation, great. If the next one does a better show compared to the first, depending on conformation, it may go up. If one does a poor show, or has poorer conformation than at first thought, it will be moved down accordingly, how far depends on the performance/conformation of the rest of the class. If one lower down the line does well and has correct conformation, it will be brought up. I would find it much harder to remember without the initial pull a big class. You may think you have a memory good enough, but do the people who have been judged by you...how would we know. Personally the classes I have observered where by marks have NOT been used, there is rarely any change in the line up...because I feel the judge cant recall.....but the classes where marks ARE used and used correctly you do see ponies movng up the line accordingly....In this day and age with the costs involved I truly believe things need to change and there should be set marks for ride errors as well as confirmation, judges could deduct a little extra on faults they perticularly dont like.... no wonder the showing world is the laughing stock of the equine industry...
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Post by Remembering on Jul 11, 2014 13:23:56 GMT
If spectators , who are not there to judge a class, can recall which horses did not go so well and which did, then why wouldnt the judge?
I would imagine if there were 50 horses in front of you it would be hard, but 20 is not that difficult, You watch them all on the go round and pull them in accordingly. Then you watch their show and decide if they are better or not so good as each other. If you liked the one in first from the go round, and it's conformation, if it then does a show not quite as good (but not way off) as the one in 15th that you didnt like so much in the go round, then the one that was originally in first should be placed higher than the one in 15th as you didnt like the one in 15th initially.
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smalley
Full Member
Horses lend us the wings we lack
Posts: 419
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Post by smalley on Jul 11, 2014 13:31:09 GMT
In a way using no marks does have its benefits - when marks are used the go round isn't taken into account, so a pony that misbehaves on the go round could still win or get placed. Also, recently I was at a show and after the initial pull in the line up was changed a lot, for example I was moved up from 7th to 3rd, so I do think some judges are prepared to change the line up. However I think marks are good for conformation as when there are several ponies all with very good conformation you need to pick out the smallest of faults and surely judges cannot remember these tiny details. Also, when you have a huge class where several go very well, you have to split them somehow and I think marks help to be able to remember which one pony was marginally better than the others.
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Post by bellasmum on Jul 11, 2014 13:36:58 GMT
I find it fairly easy to judge with no marks, but I prefer to pull the exhibits in after the go round, so you already have an initial order based on first impressions and how they went all together. You are comparing each horse, one against the next, in that class, on that day. If the first horse does a good show and on closer inspection has good conformation, great. If the next one does a better show compared to the first, depending on conformation, it may go up. If one does a poor show, or has poorer conformation than at first thought, it will be moved down accordingly, how far depends on the performance/conformation of the rest of the class. If one lower down the line does well and has correct conformation, it will be brought up. I would find it much harder to remember without the initial pull a big class. what this lady says, its easy when you actually are stood in the middle of the ring doing the job – I can usually pick my top section on the go round, and then shuffle to suit after ride and conformation, I don't need marks to know what I like! Although I agree, when you are paying a levy extra to participate in a major qualifier, maybe there should be marks available, which I think there is for most societies – if there is something I particularly like further down a big line up, I write the number down with the steward and make sure I go behind the line for another look before sending them off
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Post by gadabout on Jul 12, 2014 22:36:05 GMT
I prefer to judge without marks, when you are in the ring, there are so many things that help you decide. Inapt riders who let their horses fall in, or drift out, no rythemic paces, rushing through transitions etc. Then confirmation, over at the knee or back at the knee, no walk on them, no length of rein. horses pinned into hands made to look like side reins. Not many give a lovely show where the horse carries itself and the rider, gives a correct bend through the corners etc. So easy to sort them. I do as the other judges do, make my initial decision on what a horse has given me on the walk in the go round and if it goes better in trot and canter then we are half way there. however there some that I will move up if the first choices have not given me what I am looking for. Come and spend a day in the ring you will learn so much, that you do not see outside.
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I watched that class
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Post by I watched that class on Jul 13, 2014 6:13:13 GMT
I must admit I watched the same class noand could not work out how they allocated the places, there were some I though did a perfect show and just got placed 6th and another that bucked and changed legs got 4th my friend told me though that the confirmation plays a big part in the judging so presumably that's why if you could see the marks you'd get a better understanding. I do dressage and there is a score sheet every time I do a test and although I don't always agree at least I can gain an understanding of where I went wrong.
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