pelham v double

[Newlandwelshies]

Hi all, just a couple of experienced tips please.

welsh section b very small head, (shetland bridle size), full up 13.2 ridden by a 10 year old although not a complete novice but needs some additional brakes in the canter.

Ridden at home in a jointed snaffle.

also comments please, rider a little nervous in canter as moved up from a 11.2, and although 13.2 not sharp but very big mover, i think is slightly taking advantage in the canter and rider is tensing up. Pony is taking more notice of riders body language rather than verbal instructions at times. Better schooling required? Perfect to verbal instructions on the lunge but thinking the rider's tensing causing the problems. Tends to look after rider in every other way, even when she slides off pony stops and wonders what has happened, but wonder whether body language is taking over verbal instructions or whether pony just taking advantage of young rider. Did a walk and trot show recently, only being riding her a month, and she went foot perfect and not took advantage in any way, even when another very naughty pony was in the ring. In a nutshell should a well schooled pony take notice of verbal command irrespective of body language or is it reasonable to expect body language to rule. Pony experienced at county level but with an older rider on top, but must state in every other way comes back down and looks after rider.

thanks in advance. x

[sarahp]

Lessons to get pony and rider working together. A well schooled pony should obey the rider's aids, not verbal commands from anyone when not on the LR or lunge, so pony is doing exactly what it should be doing, sounds a gem to me, it just needs time to get them both talking each other's language, so to speak. And it sounds to me as if rider is not yet experienced enough to ride properly with two reins in each hand anyway.

[Newlandwelshies]

thanks sarahp that is exactly what i had felt myself, just being advised by a few people otherwise!

By watching them i can see pony and rider are doing perfect until the stride gets a little bigger and then my daughter tenses up and it gets a bit too fast and out of control. They are worked and schooled in a snaffle at home and would prefer to keep it that way for a while personally. I think time probably just a few walk and trot classes whilst she is showing her inhand for the moment and the remainder of the time having fun at home. Being honest my daughter does have a bit of a hang up with canter as her first ever pony (loan pony) bolted with her in a show and i think she is expecting that by the big stride this pony will do likewise. in fact i know she is because she told me. We have had this pony for a year and a half now and my daughter and her are inseperatable but she has only started to ride her now properly as we have sold our little gem of a section a. If i am being fair the difference in a month is amazing already. Time and patience.

thanks again, sometimes you question yourself when others are saying other things but deep down knowing what is right, and you have just confirmed it for me. x

[sarahp]

What a lovely reply, thank you. I know I'm old, old school and unsympathetic with some modern showing methods but in my day and when daughter learned to ride that was the point - learning to ride, not just using whatever short cut works to look good in the show ring, correct or not.

I can entirely understand how your daughter feels - perhaps some lunge lessons so that she gets used to the movement without having to worry about riding the pony, someone else is controlling him? No-one is ever too old or too experienced for lunge lessons, I had some from my instructor on her retired Advanced Medium dressage horse and benefitted hugely in my position and riding transitions. Of course I don't know you or your daughter or if you teach her or an outside instructor, but if the former maybe a few lessons from a third party might give her another point of view? The mother/daughter thing doesn't always work, I know mine would take nothing from me! And even another way of thinking about things or a small detail to think about can make a huge difference. You would need the right sympathetic instructor though, ask around at PC or RC - my and daughter's last dressage trainer came through the RC and is absolutely ace.

Do you have a school or restricted space to ride in at home? I'd suggest working on a circle, and cantering just a few strides then going down to trot again to get used to the stride and being confident at being in control. Good luck, she'll get there! Mine had a 12.2 that bucked her off repeatedly on purpose and frightened her, but she ended up jumping huge hedges out hunting and doing Open PC eventing without a care in the world, just terrifying for me to watch!

[foxyt]

My daughter gets nervous and pony goes " she's scared! I'm scared! " . They are fab at home. all of last year it went wrong at shows, this year we have had a fab time, lesson from an event rider who "gets" children really helped, when she gets tense she leans forward slightly, legs go up slightly ( all looking very slightly jockeyish! ) pony goes faster! We have worked a lot on sitting up and back, lower leg back, it all looks abit dressagey, and it really works. We had a free Mary king video and we did impressions of her riding a dressage test, the change was amazing, the pony reacted instantly to the Mary king riding, we were having lots of fun being silly but now in a comp she does her Mary king and it works.

It has taken three years to successfully come off leadrein on our hard to ride pony, but the riding is now very good and a lot more capable than just steering a three pace pony, it sounds like you need a big prescription of time, and a little dose of a good teacher. Good luck x

[Newlandwelshies]

thanks sarahp and foxyt, both messages very helpful. We are lucky enough to have a very good instructor who when at home and not out competing internationally is of amazing help, unfortunately she is at present. Luckily enough it is still working between our daughter and i, although alot of patience is required on both sides. I am putting her on the lunge for lunge lessons which goes perfectly well, it seems more nerves when she comes off! so we are going to take it very slowly, both pony and child are worth all the time in the world and as pony is only 7 and child is only 9 we have plenty of that. We have been down this route previously with our section a and after giving it a season and learning to ride properly and not just still on top (our pony was not a tick tock) she came out a much better rider and got a 4th in her first ri qualifier and 3 bsps best rider qualifications. Sadly she has grown out of the section a very quickly (another reason for not getting a 12.2) as she is already 4'9" at only 9". So will take our time, have fun for the rest of this season and maybe next if needed. Finally it is nice to get advice for others out there who seem to have the same oldfashioned views!! Learning to ride properly without gagets.

Only asked about the pelhams and doubles etc as had been given the advice from a showing producer who i will not name, and as it was a different pony considered the advice. It didnt feel right and the advice did not add up, hence the questions, so will return to my own instints infuture with my horsegossip friends at hands. thanks to boths of you.x

ps the mary king idea is great, we used a settee position on our section a, told my daughter to copy how dad sits on the settee and she was nearly laid back!! think we might have to do that again. xxx

[sarahp]

If it doesn't feel right it most likely isn't right for you, people do vary of course. As I've got older and learned more I realise how much I go with some early books I had in childhood and their classical attitude, and down the way avoided some trainers with whose methods I didn't feel compatible and learned more and more to appreciate the one I had, year ago now. I never was one to blindly follow fashion, and still don't!

Incidentally I can't speak for her dressage, but our later very eminent SJ trainer always said Mary King had the best lower leg jumping position in the business, it never moves but is always totally stable - watch some videos and see!

[catkin]

I agree with everything SarahP has said. I have seen this before and what sometimes happens (linked to the lower leg point) is that the child is tense, gets unbalanced and grips/goes stiff, thereby driving the pony forward more. A vicious circle. I would add that it might be worth a bit of a swap around too if you can sort this out i.e your child riding a more established, slower pony that needs leg to keep it going forward and someone a bit more experienced to school your pony on. I do have a slightly different perpsective on bits inasmuch as I would and do use stronger brakes for some ponies and some children. But, I would definitely agree this is a schooling/confidence issue. Good luck!

[sarahp]

I do agree with you on occasionally stronger bits in certain circumstances, but so often a "what stronger bit can I use to solve this problem" on here is actually a schooling rather than bitting problem!