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Post by Fine china on Jul 21, 2014 18:55:11 GMT
This is not aimed at any person or animal...... Should it not be that as well as a height measurement...there should be a size of bone measurement as well... This is reguarding hieghts/ weights of hunters presently contesting some of the classes... Believe me they could also compete in racehorse to riding horse classes they are sooo light... Where has the bone gone..middle weights 9 1/2" ...where
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Post by sjw87 on Jul 21, 2014 19:09:09 GMT
Same in hunter ponies sadly - I was once told by a panel judge that my 15hh needed to be hogged and shown as a cob (he's a traditional stamp of hunter pony, with bone)! Since he's since been to hoys repeatedly as a whp, I think I made the right decision!
Sent from my GT-I9195 using proboards
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Post by ponymum on Jul 21, 2014 19:24:15 GMT
Good Point Fine china , I did think to myself while watching the Royal welsh today (should of been working!!) that some of the hunters were RH !!
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Jul 22, 2014 6:05:18 GMT
Can have how ever much bone you want only matters whos on it's back
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Post by Fine china on Jul 22, 2014 6:39:48 GMT
Can have how ever much bone you want only matters whos on it's back This had crossed my mind....lts a sorry state of affairs for the home produced who wish to move on into the horse classes !!!!
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Post by pipandwill on Jul 22, 2014 9:33:55 GMT
I have this problem, i have a 14 hand shp, hes coloured, but is a proper middleweigh, bone and substance, but quality, most judges dont like him, yet under the right judge he has qual champ of champs. I ride a 15 hander who is a completely different build, total ligtweight, and get told hes to ligt to do shp's yet, i can go to the same show with the coloured in the shp's and they say hes to heavy! Cant bloody win
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Jul 22, 2014 10:34:00 GMT
Can have how ever much bone you want only matters whos on it's back This had crossed my mind....lts a sorry state of affairs for the home produced who wish to move on into the horse classes !!!! It just makes you laugh some of the things that get to HOYS in hunter classes if a nobody was on it it wouldn't do any good at local level. My horse isn't some undiscovered superstar but ive been told two weeks on the trot that my horse has a good clean legs but is light of bone for his body (He has 9 1/2 inches of bone, 17hh, has a good depth of girth and is broad, all things I though was meant to be good as it meant plenty of heart room?)
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Post by whip lass on Jul 22, 2014 12:28:38 GMT
having lived most of my life in leics I was always told an ounce of quality and courage is worth an inch of bone in the hunting field.you certainly needed a quality horse if u wanted to cross Leicestershire.dont forget with the hunter ponies u have light middle and heavy types and the ones a little short of bone are not always beefed up show ponies.good flat hard bone is what u want it often measures more than u think.
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Post by ponymum on Jul 22, 2014 16:32:03 GMT
BUT - again showing is to a degree someones opinion , it just seems to be a very sad state of affairs when the judge is often judging the rider / producer and not the animal presented to them...
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Post by catkin on Jul 22, 2014 17:39:20 GMT
We also need to consider quality of bone.
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Jul 23, 2014 13:00:07 GMT
good flat hard bone is what u want it often measures more than u think. I think this is partly the problem he has good flat hard bone (most people are suprised when I say there is 9 1/2 inches)
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Post by Boney M on Jul 24, 2014 13:30:20 GMT
Not only are they lacking in bone but tied in below the knee. The SHP's, show ponies and hacks are the worst culprits for this. Don't people realise athletic ability is impaired by the smaller tendon diameter.
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Should it be allowed
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Post by Should it be allowed on Sept 16, 2014 6:26:24 GMT
I agree the small hunters are no longer with bone and substance....the type has definately changed direction and I dont believe for the better.
Then to top it all an advert has appeared on a well know site stating the horse wins at county level in BOTH Riding horse as well as Small hunter.....how can that be..
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Post by diadem on Sept 16, 2014 8:09:27 GMT
The myriad of upright shoulders I see doesn't help either. How can an pony/ horse move well and with elevation if they're set up too upright through the shoulder.... I know different topic but....
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Post by NoConfo on Sept 16, 2014 8:23:59 GMT
I have seen some shocking cobs with absolutely no bone qualify for HOYS... Do judges not look, or just not care?! There have been maxis qualify with bone resembling that of a riding horse! There have been HWs qualify with less than 8" bone and LWs are looking more and more like fat small hunters!
Hunters are trotting around flicking their toes - like you would want that on a hunting field!! Where has the good straight movement gone - I don't want a daisy-cutting 17hh+ hunter out jumping the walls and ditches! It will have arthritis in its coffin joints in no time!!
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Post by fanfarefan on Sept 16, 2014 18:44:17 GMT
i doubt that 90% of theses top class hunters have ever seen a hunting field , let alone be able to last aday , or even a season, the true hunters are now out cubbing , preparing for opening meet in5-6 weeks time .
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Post by Pepper on Sept 29, 2014 12:42:32 GMT
couldn't agree more though am pleased to say my mwt has plenty of bone and a fab shoulder! - and hunts!
But I agree there are a lot of what I call "missers" in the weight classes, especially the MWT
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Sept 30, 2014 7:55:57 GMT
I've never shown weight hunters ( Done worker and maxi cob)and this boy ive got at the moment is my first was brought to be a HWT but I think he is a MWT but watch one class one week to the next and they could be comepletly different weight sections not the same. we went cubbing at the weekend and he was an absolute delight compared to my cob he jsut not got the stamina or the skill for the jumping yet
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Post by gillwales on Sept 30, 2014 8:44:26 GMT
Showing is objective rather than subjective, everyone knows that. My problem to getting horses and ponies measured for bone would be , in my opinion, that it would lead to the introduction of common bone.
Rather than complain about where professionals get placed, try to watch what it is that they do that you can do with your mount to improve it's way of going or the way it is presented.
When I judged I did not like course bone, some people would consider that I preferred light weight animals, however they had to have good conformation, esp to the limbs, these were the animals who , in my opinion , would stay sound and perform well in the hunting field.
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Post by HUNTER HUNT on Sept 30, 2014 9:09:47 GMT
I have been around top producers who have hunters and they do hunt, have to do so after hoys in case of injury but as soon as hoys is out they way they say the fun starts and then bring the show horses out to hunt and also there hunt horses are fit and ready to come out.
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Post by ShowingReality on Sept 30, 2014 12:23:02 GMT
Rather than complain about where professionals get placed, try to watch what it is that they do that you can do with your mount to improve it's way of going or the way it is presented. Have done this. Sadly I do not have the sway to be able to pick up the phone and intimidate judges. Nor am I judge, so I cannot do favours for others. Yes, it happens, not it is not always the case, but those that argue it never happens are burying their heads in the sand! I have stood with a producer whilst he berated a judge for not placing him well. I have heard a producer tell me in detail how he "had it out" with a judge when he placed his horse down the line. I have been told by a producer "your horse will win/qual at x show" I have also been told by a producer that my horse would "never win again if they had anything to do with it". Showing is very, very corrupt and anyone that says otherwise is kidding themselves. Having said all that, at a recent show I watched an amateur class and an open class and the calibre of riding and production was very different. Yes, sometimes pros win because they are the best on the day. But it isn't always the case.
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Sept 30, 2014 15:27:13 GMT
Rather than complain about where professionals get placed, try to watch what it is that they do that you can do with your mount to improve it's way of going or the way it is presented. Im making comments about classes I watched not that I havent competed in as my 5year old hunter isn't forward enough yet to go into hunter classes, you don't need to be a pro to understand how a horse should go and have learnt by watching over the years how to turn out a horse for the ring More often than not prefessionals are on the best horses as thats there job so thats where you expect them to be that doesn't bother me I'd rather get placed in good company than be winning against inferior horses but quite often they get a hand out for riding someone horse to get the hoys ticket even though they aren't a hoys standard horse some of the hunters ive seen qualify are shocking IMO and wouldnt be placed with joe bloggs on its back. Then you see who's sat on their back is it the pros fault or the fact some judges feel that as is that face they can't be placed down the line. I think a bigger problem with hunters is there height if its 18hh people think it has to automatically go in a HW class even if it lacks the bone to be in it
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Post by fatcob on Oct 3, 2014 23:11:37 GMT
I have seen some shocking cobs with absolutely no bone qualify for HOYS... Do judges not look, or just not care?! There have been maxis qualify with bone resembling that of a riding horse! There have been HWs qualify with less than 8" bone and LWs are looking more and more like fat small hunters! Hunters are trotting around flicking their toes - like you would want that on a hunting field!! Where has the good straight movement gone - I don't want a daisy-cutting 17hh+ hunter out jumping the walls and ditches! It will have arthritis in its coffin joints in no time!! Totally agree! Also drives me mad when they only ever hand canter!
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Post by CarolineNelson on Oct 4, 2014 9:41:10 GMT
Rather than complain about where professionals get placed, try to watch what it is that they do that you can do with your mount to improve it's way of going or the way it is presented. Have done this. Sadly I do not have the sway to be able to pick up the phone and intimidate judges. Nor am I judge, so I cannot do favours for others. Yes, it happens, not it is not always the case, but those that argue it never happens are burying their heads in the sand! I have stood with a producer whilst he berated a judge for not placing him well. I have heard a producer tell me in detail how he "had it out" with a judge when he placed his horse down the line. I have been told by a producer "your horse will win/qual at x show" I have also been told by a producer that my horse would "never win again if they had anything to do with it". Showing is very, very corrupt and anyone that says otherwise is kidding themselves. Equally, it is grossly unjust to tar all professionals (or amateurs, for that matter) with the same brush. There are rogues and there are honourable people in every walk of life. Yet again, an innocent thread has been swung round to 'professional bashing'.
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Oct 5, 2014 5:48:30 GMT
Equally, it is grossly unjust to tar all professionals (or amateurs, for that matter) with the same brush. There are rogues and there are honourable people in every walk of life. Yet again, an innocent thread has been swung round to 'professional bashing'.[/quote] The question was asked about how light of bone hunters are be coming, which comes down to judges and there preference to place pros up the line ni matter what there on In most cases I think judges arnt getting a back hander/bullyed or anything but feel that x should be up the line because of who they, and I think pros know this and use it to rtheir advantage but wouldn't everyone in that situation Like I said normally they're on the best horse that goes the best so deserve the wins its inferior amimals beat better horses just because who's on its back, you can says it matter of opinion thats its an inferior horse but Im mean when anyone can tell its not good enough
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Post by gillwales on Oct 5, 2014 6:22:21 GMT
Showing is objective rather than subjective, everyone knows that. My problem to getting horses and ponies measured for bone would be , in my opinion, that it would lead to the introduction of common bone. Rather than complain about where professionals get placed, try to watch what it is that they do that you can do with your mount to improve it's way of going or the way it is presented. When I judged I did not like course bone, some people would consider that I preferred light weight animals, however they had to have good conformation, esp to the limbs, these were the animals who , in my opinion , would stay sound and perform well in the hunting field. I have quoted myself as the middle sentence of that post has been quoted without the rest which has changed the theme of the thread. Getting back to the basis of lack of bone, if you look at warm blood breeds such as the Hanoverian, you will see that they have introduced a lot of lighter horses into their bloodlines, the result is much less bone, in-fact they look completely different than 15 to 20 years ago. The H.I.S. has gone and been replaced by the Sports Horse Breeding GB, it was inevitable that there would be consequences. In my opinion a sports horse is very different to a hunter and needs a different way of going as it is doing a different job. Breeders will only be able to produce young animals that they can sell to do a job, unless there is a real demand very few can afford to continue breeding animals that will be left grazing in their fields. Maybe we should consider changing the classes to reflect the type of animal that is being bred.
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foxyt
Full Member
Posts: 204
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Post by foxyt on Oct 5, 2014 6:36:29 GMT
I sat and watched the three hunter classes at bramham horse trials this year. I am not interested in in competing at this level as I think it is about owning the perfect horse rather than being based on rider skilles like dressage say. But to agree with the original thread, I didn't think the bone and sturdy ness of the horses was what I was expecting. There were two male professionals competing and yes they were in the top three places in every class. But they did deserve to be there, the way their horses were schooled and set up for the ride judge was in a different class to the ones at the other end of the line. The horses we very light of hand, you could see this from the edge of the ring, the judge rode them with them balanced, on their bits and really listening. It was really interesting to watch. There were some horses lower down the line who gave good rides and got moved up. Having not rode them only watched I thought the judging was fair and what I would have given.
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should it be allowed
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Post by should it be allowed on Oct 5, 2014 7:52:35 GMT
I sat and watched the three hunter classes at bramham horse trials this year. I am not interested in in competing at this level as I think it is about owning the perfect horse rather than being based on rider skilles like dressage say. But to agree with the original thread, I didn't think the bone and sturdy ness of the horses was what I was expecting. There were two male professionals competing and yes they were in the top three places in every class. But they did deserve to be there, the way their horses were schooled and set up for the ride judge was in a different class to the ones at the other end of the line. The horses we very light of hand, you could see this from the edge of the ring, the judge rode them with them balanced, on their bits and really listening. It was really interesting to watch. There were some horses lower down the line who gave good rides and got moved up. Having not rode them only watched I thought the judging was fair and what I would have given. This could of been any class, as in Hack, Riding horses even Cobs should ride in that manner, balanced and light in hand....it is the Type that is missing....and if we are not careful, we will all be competing in the same catagory very soon!!!!
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foxyt
Full Member
Posts: 204
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Post by foxyt on Oct 5, 2014 8:25:50 GMT
Lol ! You are right, all classes will be split in to colours, hahaha it's slipper slope!
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