what is the point in schooling?

[connemaras123]

After sitting in a huuuge hoys class only to sit at the end of the class and watch a pony that was so lazy the riders legs could be seen and heard desperately flapping to keep the pony going, no extension at all as the pony was desperately dead to leg (and the echo of a whip smacking) and then abruptly halt from trot and just flop (it was painful to watch the rider keep the pony going)... goes and wins to qualify hoys. The rest of the line up was just as shocking with ponies so poorly schooled, scampering and just making it in to canter or over bent as riders could barely hang on to stop. I sat and looked up and Down the class of ponies, full of stunning ponies that did flawless shows, With only 3 places left to qualify for hoys. Hoys should be for the top of the top. Immaculate ponies that are immaculately schooled and nothing less. I never normally bother or care, but this broke my heart and really makes me lose faith. So many deserving ponies trying to qualify and then to see this. Why bother schooling and getting ponies fit if this is what can qualify?!

[Admin]

When you find the answer to this question let me know. For years I have been asking the same question.

[connemaras123]

I have just looked at marks to see that this pony received a whopping 49/50 for its way of going. I was lost for words!

[waspblue]

Aug 6, 2014 19:47:13 GMT connemaras123 said:

I have just looked at marks to see that this pony received a whopping 49/50 for its way of going. I was lost for words!

I'm not surprised you were lost for words, as if this pony had done this in a dressage class it would no doubt have received fairly poor marks to reflect that it needed to improve it's way of going, before it would be good enough to be in the placings, let alone be off to The Nationals, dressages' equivalent to HOYS! It doesn't even sound like it had good enough basic schooling to win a Preliminary class let alone be among the best of the best.

I got a real shock when I began showing, after only doing dressage for years, as to how poorly schooled and badly mannered some of the horses and ponies, that actually win and qualify in these prestigious classes were. I was shocked that half can't canter on the correct leg - far too common a fault - so many are ridden front to back and not the correct way, but just pulled into a 'shape' without working correctly over their backs and being truly through from behind and with good self carriage and not leaning on the riders hands or being 'held up' by them. Maybe my dressage background makes me look at things in a different way, but I still feel - like you - that only the most beautifully schooled and well mannered animal that is an excellent example of its breed / type should make it through to HOYS, Olympia, RIHS etc etc. I can well understand how upset you were, as I would have felt just the same. We can only hope that when it gets to HOYS that it is totally outclassed by the really good ones that have got there.

[connemaras123]

It was a lovely pony to look at, so I assumed it had won by getting the top conformation mark by a good few marks, then lost marks on ride. But how wrong was I! 49/50 is quite some mark to achieve for the show, which is basically perfection- I just cannot get my head round it! The quality of ponies and standard of some of the ponies' show was exceptional, I just felt completely cheated and the result made a mockery of HOYS in my opinion! I think I have almost calmed down. Just need to get feeling positive now for the next one on Sunday and pray for some good, fair judging!

[lisa]

What class was this please. ?

[sarahp]

I do agree that correct schooling doesn't seem to be required any more - it certainly was when I started doing ridden M&M classes nearly 30 years ago, the primary requirement was one that gave an obedient, mannered and enjoyable ride, then they looked at conformation and breed type. I've always had dressage trainers, and done that in parallel with showing, or later on a retired show horse while another was being shown for me. I don't know if it's anything to do with it, but back then it wasn't all about qualifiers, and there were more ride judges used - Northleach, RWAS and RASE all had ride judges for a start.

[kmc]

So sorry to hear this and it is frustrating.

I don't know which class you're referring to but I do agree that way of going should come into it when considering the placings. If a pony is going in a ridden OPEN class, particulary a hoys qualifier it should be well schooled (yeah they all have off days and aren't robots!)...
But the ride judges should mark accordingly on their performance. As said above half of them couldn't do a simple dressage test and probably don't even move away off the riders leg, no wonder the don't bend or work properly behind!!
Instead they get thrown in harsh quick fix bits, don't track up and whizz round corners like a formula f1 race car, without even so much as an inside bend, falling in/out, above bit, over bent etc etc ... the list could go on.

After all theres plenty of novice classes for a reason to get these ponies going consistently with a good bit of experience under their belt first ... I don't think it would be a bad idea if the judges actually rode them in the qualifiers like they do the breed classes xx

[connemaras123]

I also would love judges to ride the coloureds, schooling would be obvious then! I guess the only problem would be a judge small enough for a Shetland and the other littluns! I would rather not post the specific class, as I don't want to make it personal.x

[smalley]

I completely agree, especially since I do more dressage than showing. Watching the ponies going round you can see exactly which ones are working properly and over their back and sadly it's the minority. What's more, the amount of ponies that can't bend the right way is shocking, I watched a HOYS SHP class the other day and I think one pony had the correct bend! I understand showing is a different way of going to dressage but a showing pony should be able to at least have the correct bend, do smooth transitions and work from behind instead of pulling itself along with it's front end.
I was pleased to have a judge at Ryedale in the M&M class who actually gave some advice on improving a pony's way of going, which is the first time in 2 years of showing this pony that any judge has given me an idea of how he should be going in the show ring compared to doing a dressage test which was really helpful!

[lancslass]

That's showing for ya!! Seriously though, I'm sorry you had to endure what you went through OP. I wonder if the said winning/qualifying pony had any professional connnections by any chance?!!.., or had a well known face in the ring/grooming for them??!!

Sorry the above may sound a little catty,...but I see it so often in and out of the ring nowadays... and more recently at Great Yorkshire Show.

[Sharon Allen]

I think the marks need to go back to 60/40, not enough being knocked off for bad shows / manners, good shows are not being rewarded.
May as well just run them up in hand and look at conformation .
This is suppose to be a ridden class after all !!

[Toaster]

It was very interesting to watch some of the ponies at Stoneleigh yesterday

One of the rings was slightly undulating, on a slight slope and had two trees in it. to ride the ring correctly meant you had to gently curve around one tree which was half way along a straight side and go around the other tree which was not quite in a corner. this really showed off the ponies that were supple and adaptable and a few fell short on these things

I have to say most coped very well to be fair and it certainly made for a more interesting class than had it been on a totally flat surface

[sarahp]

I was just talking about schooling natives to someone this morning, and we both agreed that schooling on hacks and in all weathers gives them a great preparation for situations like this, far better than staying in an arena.

I wasn't there, but do agree Toaster, a much more interesting class for spectators, and also a more testing one for the competitors which can only be a good thing and help sort the wheat from the chaff!

[gerrig06]

I agree completely with this, i have just come back from Equifest, horses and ponies completely overbent, running out through the bridle,wrong legging in open classes being placed over horses and ponies that did lovely shows, one even taking off on the go around when it was asked to gallop taking 2 laps of the ring to stop whereupon the steward then took a good few minutes in the middle of the ring to do the girth up! and then getting placed 3rd. It was quite comical really.