please explain

[flagmountmolly08]

can some please explain to me the following as i dont understand the reason why this happens.

1 - hitting the horse 5minutes after an incident
2 - hitting the horse just because you are annoyed that it didnt jump clear
3 - hitting the horse because you are a novice and have a short temper and actually dont know what your doing
4 - hitting the horse on the shoulder when just getting into the ring and saying 'wake up' - dont we have legs for that??

[Milliesmum]

I was always taught that the whip is there to back up your leg aids, so IMO none of the above is a valid reason to use the whip. If the horse NEEDS to listen and isn't, for example you are in traffic, IMO one sharp tap is more effective than tip-tapping and messing about.

Having been on livery at a riding school and helped out on hacks etc, I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to remove a customer's whip - it seems that as soon as you put a whip in their hand their legs cease to function!

[flagmountmolly08]

Feb 13, 2009 10:01:44 GMT Milliesmum said:

I was always taught that the whip is there to back up your leg aids, so IMO none of the above is a valid reason to use the whip. If the horse NEEDS to listen and isn't, for example you are in traffic, IMO one sharp tap is more effective than tip-tapping and messing about.

Having been on livery at a riding school and helped out on hacks etc, I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to remove a customer's whip - it seems that as soon as you put a whip in their hand their legs cease to function!

milliesmum i agree when your on the road a sharp tap is more effective than kicking. i feel like hitting people sometimes when i see them hitting the ponies for no reason . how would they feel if they got a slap for nothing??

[Bombay]

I always ride without a whip and only on the VERY lazy/ignorant ones do i use one. At the end of the day when a judge gets on your horse it need to know what is a leg is, Last thing you want is the judge kicking like mad, Not a very enjoyable ride IMO.

Another thing that i dont get is why do people hit their horses on the shoulder just before a jump.

1 - you put the horse off their stride and more then likely make them jump like a stag!!
2 - the "engine" is behind so if you need more power from your horse do it from the engine. You would put the clutch in on a car if you needed more power, u'd use the accelerator.

[flagmountmolly08]

Feb 13, 2009 10:25:59 GMT Bombay said:

I always ride without a whip and only on the VERY lazy/ignorant ones do i use one. At the end of the day when a judge gets on your horse it need to know what is a leg is, Last thing you want is the judge kicking like mad, Not a very enjoyable ride IMO.

Another thing that i dont get is why do people hit their horses on the shoulder just before a jump.

1 - you put the horse off their stride and more then likely make them jump like a stag!!
2 - the "engine" is behind so if you need more power from your horse do it from the engine. You would put the clutch in on a car if you needed more power, u'd use the accelerator.

i have to admit this is a very naughty habit that am trying to get out of, am now teaching my self to
1 - not get to giddy when i jump
2 - if i need to give him a tap its behind the leg!!
as a very nice friend of mine pointed this habit out to me which is now being corrected!!

[ellieraga]

a very interesting topic and must admit the use of whips and spurs does make my blood boil, before i go any further if they are used in the correct manner then i dont see a problem .

my daughter who is now 8 and been riding since she was 3, i have never allowed her to carry a whip, because

1, i think they learn to ride a lot better when using legs and not slapping the pony on the neck every time they want to go that bit quicker,

2, i am fed up standing at shows watching kids that havent won 1st place for a number of reasons , then coming out of the ring and hitting the pony

this is just my personal view and something i do feel strongly about but we were at a sj show recentley and there were kids of probably 7 upwards riding with whips and spurs, goodness sake teach the kids to ride properly first

[starrider]

I never ride with a whip- and when in a class I take one in just for appearance really.

the only time I have ever had to use a whip was on a mare that used to cow kick when asked to canter. So I used to hold the whip out to the side behind me and low down so when she kicked out she also kicked the whip - she didn't like anything touching her lower leg so she soon stopped.

[Bombay]

I hate it when you see kids with spurs on (mostly in showjumping), they have no concept of what injuries they could cause to the horse,

When in a jump off they will kick as hard as they can to go fast regardless of if they have spurs on, Not fair to the horse.

[Hunter123]

Ive been up to watch a few shows at croft top late on last year ... in the m&m large class there was a gorgeous dark bay sec D with a big sized girl on? people might no which one i mean... Every time i have seen this rider and pony, she was hitting it all the time through out the class even stud in the line up i was ready for complaining, the horse was doing nothing wrong she was also kicking it as it stressed its neck . Some people need to no that people are watching them then they may reduce doing such stupid things when its not needed. ;D x

[fayeandash]

My daughter who's 7 uses a whip, even if it's just to hold, as our very cunning pony knows he can be lazy if she hasn't got it, but at one point last year she got a little carried away with it, not hitting the pony hard because he had been bad, but was being lazy with her leg and using it as a substitute for her leg, she is now learning to use the whip only when the pony doesn't listen to her leg, she would get pulled straight off the pony if she used it to beat him for being naughty.

[ponymum]

I think a whip is as MM pointed out a tool to use for certain situations. Not all ponies /horses go off the leg , and a schooling whip is an effective means of giving the animal a sharp tap to send it forward. My daughter has a VERY lazy mare , who takes the mickey. She rides with a schooling whip to help her to learn to go forward...She doesnt ride all the ponies with a schooling whip, just her, the others are all quite naturally forward. We actaully went to try a FR and the small jockey was wearing spurs

[hannahlh NLI]

i know an man who used to show jump..this must have been about 25 years ago..but he kicked and kicked and kicked hi horse so hard with spurs on, made the poor horse bleed!!!

[nici]

I'm starting to teach my daughter (who's 5) how to ride with a whip/cane, because her ponies are not very responsive (partly because her feet barely clear the bottom of the saddle lol!) and do respond better to a smart tap than to endless kicking. However she knows the stick is not there to smack her pony, just to back up her leg aids.

I've also taught her how to use a cane inhand, as one of the ponies is very lazy until given one smart tap with a whip/cane, then is very responsive. As my daughter is only just starting her inhand showing career I don't want her to struggle with an unresponsive pony - both enjoy it more when the pony trots happily beside her, as she will after a tap!

I hate to see kids with spurs and kids whacking their ponies with whips. They need to be taught from the beginning how, when and why to use them properly.

[tuppence]

Feb 13, 2009 9:58:04 GMT @flagmountmolly08 said:

can some please explain to me the following as i dont understand the reason why this happens.

1 - hitting the horse 5minutes after an incident
2 - hitting the horse just because you are annoyed that it didnt jump clear
3 - hitting the horse because you are a novice and have a short temper and actually dont know what your doing
4 - hitting the horse on the shoulder when just getting into the ring and saying 'wake up' - dont we have legs for that??

Yes, you are totally right. Horses don't remember for very long so if you need to punish a horse you have to do it at that very second.
I really hate to see nervous or novice riders come out of the arena and hit a horse for a poor test or round. I am a dressage judge and although I shouldn't, I do remember who this these people are.

However, I do sometimes tap a lazy horse on the shoulder to tell it that we are about to do something more serious than normal. I don't mean beating them - after all my cane is 18" long and I am only twisting my wrist; how much force can I get behind that?

[hottoddy]

I think there is definately times when a whip is needed and it just needs to be used responsibly. My horse is bone idol and there is no way Im wearing myself out booting him over and over and besides he will go dead to the leg!! At this point I should point out that I have very long and very strong legs but if he fails to listen to said legs he gets a tap!! I know the judge doesnt carry a whip but they very rarely use a lot of leg either so if he doesnt listen straight away there is a consequence!! He is finally starting to come round to my way of thinking and is much more forward going now!
I see it as the same as a bit which is only as strong as the hands that hold the reins!

[hunter]

Oh thats easy to answer in one word IGNORANCE .

[s.smith]

well said hunter!

[Ziggy]

Children using spurs, what an awfull thought. Surely our children should be taught to be kind and considerate to all living things whether they are equine, human, feline or canine. I saw my three year old kick our cat once. i guess he is only little and does not always understand but lets put it this way he has never done it again after I showed him the error of his ways!
I do think sometimes though holding a whip can helps cheeky ponies to respect you. You don't need to use it at all but they know it's there and you mean business.

[Giddie]

100% agree with Milliesmum..

[boots & saddles]

i work in a saddlery and we dont sell whips,because we are a shop close to many riding schools and when the parents come in they think all they need to buy is long boots whitch i hate on small kids a hat as they have just decided its the kids bithday and saftey is now important even though they have been riding for months with a riding school owned hat thats lived most of its life kicked round the floor and yes that bloody new whip.
i went to watch a friend of mines child at pony camp and could not believe my eyes at the amount of kids who used there whip and abused there ponies witnessed by adults and did nothing,i was so shocked my friends daughter no longer attends pony club.

[armada]

When I was a child I was'nt allowed a stick, I had to use my legs, end of.
My mum only let me have a stick when I knew what I was doing leg-wise, and my hands and balance were of a sufficiently competent level to allow me to use the stick effectively when needed and not have it waving about when it was'nt in use.
Her words of 'the stick is not there to replace your leg, but reinforce it' have never left my mind, and as a result, although I always carry one, 99% of the time thats all I do, carry it.
Over the years the whole dynamic of horse-owing has changed, now non-horsey doting parents buy their kids an unsuitable pony because they know no different, they get 'advice' from people they should not listen to, because they know no different, and as soon as the kid has had a few lessons at the local riding school and is off the lead rein, its time to buy it a pony, and it can walk trot and canter and even pop a crosspole without hitting the deck, why on earth should we spend £20 an hour every week on lessons the little darling does'nt need?
My mum invested in me, I had a lesson every week virtually from the age of five up until I sold my eventer after my accident in my twenties (at that point I was having 3 lessons a week - one for each discipline).
I still have a lesson now, when I have a horse to ride.....
I just despair at the sights I see now when I'm judging, and if I were to speak to every child/parent or adult abusing their pony, I'd never be in the ring doing what I am there to do, but it does'nt stop me drawing the attention of the show secretary to what I have witnessed.
And I will say, some of the pony club members are the worst offenders - what are they teaching them these days?
I judged at AVH show last year, which was supported by many of their pony club members, and I was aghast.
West Lancs Pony Club under Mrs Pereira was run like a military boot camp, and you had to get written permission from her to be allowed to wear spurs - and only if you were in the top two rides, and she grilled you on why you thought you needed them, and if you did'nt come up to muster and the instructors did not agree you needed them end of story, and this written permission had to be presented at whatever show or event you were representing your branch at.
Sometimes I just dream of being able to pull these silly brats off their ponies and give 'em a belting with the same stick they've just beat their pony with and when challenged by an angry parent say 'of course they know why I'm hitting them, it only happened 5 minutes ago, ask the pony, it knows'.

[flagmountmolly08]

Sometimes I just dream of being able to pull these silly brats off their ponies and give 'em a belting with the same stick they've just beat their pony with and when challenged by an angry parent say 'of course they know why I'm hitting them, it only happened 5 minutes ago, ask the pony, it knows'


that just sums it all up !!

[bundle]

Preaching to the converted a bit here!! Thank goodness we are not alone in thinking that Violence begins where knowledge ends!

[ladybird]

exactly!

[silver]

Feb 17, 2009 16:10:59 GMT boots & saddles said:

i work in a saddlery and we dont sell whips,because we are a shop close to many riding schools and when the parents come in they think all they need to buy is long boots whitch i hate on small kids a hat as they have just decided its the kids bithday and saftey is now important even though they have been riding for months with a riding school owned hat thats lived most of its life kicked round the floor and yes that bloody new whip.

I wish you were the saddlery near me! I get kids turn up to ride in those hideous long rubber boots that they can 'grow into' - meaning for months they won't be able to bend their knees - and all manner of spangly whips (the worst offenders are the ones with the 'novelty' ends) which are promptly removed and asked not to be brought back!

[silver]

Feb 17, 2009 18:18:53 GMT armada said:

.
Over the years the whole dynamic of horse-owing has changed, now non-horsey doting parents buy their kids an unsuitable pony because they know no different, they get 'advice' from people they should not listen to, because they know no different, and as soon as the kid has had a few lessons at the local riding school and is off the lead rein, its time to buy it a pony, and it can walk trot and canter and even pop a crosspole without hitting the deck, why on earth should we spend £20 an hour every week on lessons the little darling does'nt need?

I have had people do exactly that - 6 lessons on Mr Patent Safety and they go off and buy a pony, becuase its actually cheaper to keep a pony at some dodgy farmers livery yard than it is to have a weekly riding lesson..... and of course, once they own the pony they never need riding lessons again. I usually use the analogy of "if I bought a formula 1 car today, that doesn't make me lewis hamilton tomorrow!''

[silvershadow]

I learnt to ride on somery lazy horses, but was rarely allowed to use a whip! It taught me not to be lazy and use my legs rpoperly, and eventually after lots of nagging, the horse would be moving off my leg without being walloped every 5 minutes! On my old yard, some of the people used to give them a couple of cracks on the neck when they went into ride to ' wake them up ' but would then sit there with their legs flapping and sawng on the reins

I always carry a whip now, but a long schooling whisp which is used behind my leg when needed, as Whisp doesnt really like schooling in the paddock lol! I also carry a cane too, but purely for cosmetic reasons lol!

[tesstkat]

i like this thread it brings up some good points novices with spur is a bug bear of mine especially when they havent even got balance it the sadcdle for god sake there not grapplin hooks to hold you in place -grrrrrrrrrr

the whip situation i wish i could use one on my horse i can carry a whip but all i have to do is move it and shes off so only ever carry a short show cane, i carry it in ridden classes for apperance and in hand i must admit my mare thinks rearing is a necessity but strikes out so i used it to give her a little clonk as she tries to strike me hmmm is that wrong but no i think you should learn to ride handle horses before being given spurs or whips or every time you do something wrong some one belts you with one, i also hate schooling whips i have seen to many time people not knowing how to use them and drawing blood they have hit so hard makes me mad

[squirly]

i went to dressage last week and a rider came out of the arena and basically battered her horse with a 110 cm schooly whip. This rider did showjumping and it was the 1st time she or her horse had ever done dressage. When i asked her friend why she hit it, the friend said, "well the pony deserved it, it shyed down the centre line"

with the horse being a thoroughbred with thin coat and skin there was swollen marks where the horse had been hit

why do people do this?

[Raising Questions]

There was a horse i saw last year down here, whos rider had been jumping - a lovely old fashioned WB but she was classically too small to get him working. She wore spurs and carried a whip, at the end of the session i walked down to see said horse bleeding from whip and spur marks. Needless to say i went up and complained but because she was liked, nowt got done.

I always carry a whip with my pony, and will wear spurs in a dressage test. Spurs as she can go a little dead when she spooks and in dressage, id rather have a little extra control about where my pony goes - if i dont need them, they dont get used. My pony is a confirmed bucker, and she was sold because she was napping and bucking with previous owner, she hasnt bucked or napped with me in a long time (not since i bought her more or less) but i carry it just incase. Id rather have it and not need it than not carry it and end up in a pile. ;D