Not quite registered
Guest
|
Post by Not quite registered on Feb 19, 2009 13:06:30 GMT
I would be very interested in how people perceive the rules of FYFR classes. As i have been reading on a different thread that some very young children had a go at a show not so long ago. Does this then put them out of this class for good next year. Just interested as my daughter would love to do FR but I have told her to wait until she is older or else she will put herself out of this class before she is ready. Or instead of them being FYFR perhaps there should be an age limit or rider to have won or been placed so many times before they are out. Personally I do not know what the answer is. But I do think it is a shame that a little person may be nolonger able to do this class again when they are a little bit older and when they are coming out of Lead Rein and will then be taking the big step forever and unable to go back.
|
|
|
|
Post by fayeandash on Feb 19, 2009 15:28:47 GMT
I think most shows have an age limit n it, my daughter is only just 7, but has been doing the normal first ridden classes as not many shows run the FYFR classes, so when there is a FYFR class she goes in that and competes against children her own age, other wise she is competeing against children up to 13 years old (depending when their birthday is) and most schedules state that if the child is doing the FYFR then they can't enter other classes off the lead, as far as i'm aware this is the only rule, but i agree its confusing, and if the rule was that you couldn't go back once doing it for a year it would put children off giving it a try.
|
|
|
|
Post by thecremellosociety on Feb 19, 2009 15:44:31 GMT
We call our classes first time first ridden, they mayonly do lead rein classes and first time first ridden classes on that day, not first ridden and we change our ages around a little bit and our heights, we ask that they are NEVER to have won a 1st place rosette off the lead rein, hard to police, but we ask persons to respect these classes, and also the judges know if the child is really VERY exceptional and its OBVIOUSLY done more then ask that it graciously move into the forst ridden section. We ask that you only do first time first ridden for 1 year (we have 2 shows a year). Our Ages at our shows are Tiny Tots 6 & Under Pony 12.2 & Under Lead rein 9 & Under Pony 12.2 & Under First Time First Ridden 10 Yrs & Under Pony 13.2 & Under First Ridden 12 year & Under Pony 13.2 & Under (notts deby shows only, derby county are run under BSPS & NPS regular ages) We feel it important to allow the introduction children into these classes, and parents are allowed in the first time first ridden class, but will be heavily penalised for assisiting manually though we do not mind vocal encoragement. But thats our rules, odd we may be but seems to work ok for us  |
|
|
|
Post by nici on Feb 21, 2009 1:22:29 GMT
My daughter was one of those who entered the FYFR at Warren Farm to have a go, although she isn't ready. She's only 5 years old and her pony is a safe but cheeky and not well-schooled Shetland - definitely not a push button schoolmaster! However we like to use shows like the one at Warren Farm to take steps forward out of our comfort zone, as it's such a safe and supportive environment. She will be eligible by age for FYFR at that show for another 2 years. I would expect her to do it again next year, when I expect her to be a true FYFR and not a LR-er having a go, as she was this year. I would be disappointed in her if she wants to do it in 2 years time. She will only just be 7 then but I'm hoping she'll have a full season of FYFR/FR under her belt, so in my opinion she shouldn't do FYFR.
It's probably the only FYFR class she'll do off lead this year, as our local RC shows don't have them, and she's nowhere near ready for FR (wobbly steering, dodgy acceleration and canter tends to be accompanied by screams of either fear or excitement depending on her mood!). So for this season she'll do LR showing classes and as many novelty classes as possible off lead, to gain confidence and experience on her own, without the pressure of having to do a full show.
In theory she could stay on lead rein until she's 9 (we have M&Ms only) but I would be horrified if she wanted to! (Can't wait to bin the hated skirt!!!)
EmmaJane - re your ruling on NEVER to have won a 1st place rosette off LR - my daughter won a "Best Child's Pony" class off LR last September, aged just 4 years old. Would you include that? It's academic for us as you're way outside our geographic area, however I'm interested in the answer, as I'm keen that we enter classes in the right spirit, and I'm trying to get a feel for how others consider novelty type classes. Also, what do you consider to be manual assistance? At the Warren Farm show, the kids who were obviously lead reiners having a go were generally accompanied by a parent/helper who went alongside them in their show (myself included after a minor panic from child!!!!) Although we didn't touch the ponies, they were generally experienced LR ponies who are used to following the leader (with or without LR). Would you consider that manual assistance?
|
|
|
|
Post by thecremellosociety on Feb 21, 2009 8:06:07 GMT
With regards the first rossette, if the best childs pony was a proper ridden class and not a fun class we would count it, and manual assistance we had alot go in at the xmas show that ran alongside, whislt we dont mind, if the parent can be a little further away or further in front that would in my opnion gain more brownie points, we have 2 age groups for lead rein hence we are not rushing them off the lead, if they arnt capable or are scared then stay in the LR for another year is what we say (providing they are within the age limits).
|
|
|
|
Post by perfect on Feb 21, 2009 23:34:03 GMT
This class is a minefield, my grandaughter did this class at Warren farm. i allowed her to go out on her own, with just verbal encouragement from me, and i was really pleased with her attempt. It was so obvious that quite a few children where in the same boat as her(being Lreiners). there could def, do with being more show with classes l;ike this to get the children going as first ridden is just to much for them to take it all in. i was told theat puk use to do fyfr but i cant see it in there schedule ( anyone) . I didnt agree with some leaders who did run along side the ponies, it was just as a lrein class really, the child needs to be able to try to steer and keep going on its own. or at least have a try. all the little ones derseved a rossett for there efforts... Well Done
|
|
|
|
Post by fayeandash on Feb 22, 2009 0:02:51 GMT
perfect where abouts are you? i know wilpshire riding club at osbaldeston has a first year first ridden, they are holding an indoor show soon - not too sure of exact date but they do have a website, my daughter will be doing the normal first ridden there this year as she wants to canter, but we went to this show last year and it was fab, really worth a try if you are in the area xx
|
|
|
|
Post by fayeandash on Feb 22, 2009 0:04:24 GMT
just had a look at website and assume that this is their first show on 12th of april x
|
|
|
|
Post by ponymum on Feb 22, 2009 10:37:17 GMT
Bolton and district also do a fyfr |
|
|
|
Post by perfect on Feb 22, 2009 15:28:12 GMT
We are in cheshire, we have the little chestnut show pony that was at warren farm, would be interested in that show at osbaldeston what does the club come under, also thanks ponymum you certainly seem to know whats what. ( by the way have you started LL yet, ive lost 181/2 ibs in 5 weeks now...
|
|
|
|
Post by fayeandash on Feb 22, 2009 15:31:46 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by confused on Feb 24, 2009 21:08:34 GMT
I read this thread and then went to the Warrenfarn one to see what the fuss is about:  I thought the clue was in the name How can some of you say that your kids are FIRST YEAR FR when you admit they have done FR classes all last year and are well above the capability, just cos they are 'the rigt age'. That stinks of hypocrisy and trophy-bagging.  The idea of FIRST YEAR FR is that the kids not done any classes off lead before (nevermind all last season). |
|
|
|
Post by ponymum on Feb 24, 2009 21:42:20 GMT
Confused - Thats why, even tho our pony is 4 and newly broken, we didnt go, cos my girl is not a fyfr...there IS a differance..
|
|
|
|
Post by fayeandash on Feb 24, 2009 22:40:38 GMT
first year first ridden equitation - riders 8 and under
first ridden equitation - riders 8-11
it also stated in the rules that you couldn't enter fyfr eq class if you did the normal first ridden, so i put my daughter in the correct equitation class for her age - she's 7, this then prevented her from doing the fr m&m!!!!! so had to do fyfr going by their rules.
Maybe the organisers should change the rules, then my daughter would have gone in the correct first ridden showing class.
confused - maybe you should have looked at the schedule and rules before accusing people of trophy bagging!
|
|
|
|
Post by ponymum on Feb 25, 2009 8:33:02 GMT
faye - I think confused is pointing the finger at others....  , but on looking at the schedule it became apparent that there wasnt enough classes to warrant going, for us anyway xx |
|
|
|
Post by Top Secret IV on Feb 25, 2009 9:05:06 GMT
We made the horrible mistake with Maddie of doing the FYFR classes when she was 5 coming 6, although she was more than capable, this ment the following year she was off into actually first ridden classes, we then had confidance issues in the ring for a while!
If i could do it all over again i would keep her on the lead for as long as possible and keep the loose stuff to home and possible the collecting ring!
|
|
|
|
Post by fayeandash on Feb 25, 2009 10:01:07 GMT
We made the horrible mistake with Maddie of doing the FYFR classes when she was 5 coming 6, although she was more than capable, this ment the following year she was off into actually first ridden classes, we then had confidance issues in the ring for a while! If i could do it all over again i would keep her on the lead for as long as possible and keep the loose stuff to home and possible the collecting ring! This is why i think instead of it being fyfr, it should be more of a nursey first ridden and done on ages, you don't want to hold the kids back when they want to have a go, but don't want them then to be out of their league the next season and knock their confidence by making them compete against kids almost twice their age. |
|
|
|
Post by thecremellosociety on Feb 25, 2009 18:09:29 GMT
we are going to have more actual age group classes next year, rather than ability, we do have a good selection of classes but easy to see why they can be misunderstood rules etc. we also do tiny tots lead rein as very often the little ones get over looked by older betterriders when it should be the pony being looked at and how it copes with a tiny jockey.
|
|
|
|
Post by confused on Feb 25, 2009 20:48:01 GMT
first year first ridden equitation - riders 8 and under first ridden equitation - riders 8-11 it also stated in the rules that you couldn't enter fyfr eq class if you did the normal first ridden, so i put my daughter in the correct equitation class for her age - she's 7, this then prevented her from doing the fr m&m!!!!! so had to do fyfr going by their rules. Maybe the organisers should change the rules, then my daughter would have gone in the correct first ridden showing class. confused - maybe you should have looked at the schedule and rules before accusing people of trophy bagging! Well, that obviously hit a raw nerve with you then! I named no names, but referred to the other thread about WarrenFarm where the previous discussions of ability and previous performance was there for all to see. But, if you want to be pedantic and debate this on a technicality in the rules, then on your reasoning above there wasn't any classes which were truly open to your girl, cos you've admitted she is not a FIRST YEAR FR having won several times at FR and small M&M classes all last season. So perhaps Ponymum had assessed the schedule more appropriately? My opinion still stands that FIRST YEAR FR is for those who are making the transition from LR to FR this season. Good luck to those who can push their kids on and going into shows confidently alone when they are well under 'age limits/expectations' they're lucky if the kid has the balls to handle it. Some kids need the extra support for longer as Top Secret IV says, and it would be nice if it was true FYs all together. The original thread made the point that FYFR should have some additional rules or definitions to ensure this class is not abused or else you end up with this situation year after year. |
|
|
|
Post by fayeandash on Feb 25, 2009 21:30:24 GMT
It didn't hit a nerve, just pointed out their rules, i wasn't going to make my daughter compete against children 4/5 years older than her in the equitation class just so she could do the m&m first ridden, and as it was the girl who came second had just 'flown' round the workers course in canter, so compared to her my daughter was in the corrct class, infact there were others also of similar ability!
And for your information i don't push my daughter to do anything, infact she is the one asking to do these things!
I'm not going to tell my daughter she can't go to a show that all her friends are going to just to keep people like you happy, all i did was abide by the rules!
Anyway we had a fab day, and it still would have been a fab day even if she was at the bottom of the line - just thought i'd get in there first before you also made a comment on that! we also met some lovely people x
Why come on as a guest when it's so easy to register? or are you registered and just want to remain unknown? its a pathetic way to have a debate!
|
|
|
|
Post by Confused on Feb 25, 2009 22:06:48 GMT
I didn't say you push your child to do the shows. The comment was that some children are braver and find the move up to something new or harder easier to handle so can be stretched that bit more, or that bit younger, and those who are in that lucky position would be capitalising on it.
You say that there were others in the classes of a similar ability - but did they do FR classes last season? The comparative ability is not in question, the point of the thread is the technical interpretation of FIRST YEAR FR, which should be more clearly and consistently applied to ensure that some do not underplay their experience in order to participate.
And, FYI- I can't register, as I'm in work & the e-mail system locks it out.
|
|
|
|
Post by perfect on Feb 25, 2009 23:12:54 GMT
IOts a shame that its got a bit heated on this thread, being a nan who grandaughter was actually in this class i can see both points of view, i understood it to be a class for the little ones to try there hand at going on there own without the added pressure, which a lot of the little ones did, and did very well. and yes felt a bit dissopointed that the judge had pulled more advanced rider into the line up. but i hadnt read the rules so didnt coment. My grandaughter is only just 6( technically 5) because of where her birthday falls, she wants to try and ride on her own, so i have let her try but no way will she be doing FR for a long time yet as most of the time she will still be doing lead rein. We have got to look after these little ones as they are the future, so we dont push them to hard and then it gets so they dont enjoy it.
|
|
|
|
Post by fayeandash nli on Feb 25, 2009 23:45:19 GMT
ok, i totally get where you are coming from, and sorry for the assumption you were hiding behind a guest name, i'm not wanting an arguement, but were you there on the day?? the classs was very mixed, and i'm guessing that my daughter probably only won due to the pony knowing his job inside out, as there were many more capable riders than her in that class, who had obviously done more than 1 year of first ridden - i know this as they have previously beaten my daughter in the first ridden classes.
And if you say competitiors in this class can only do 1 year before they move up, take a look at who else was in the class and see if they enter the proper first ridden next year, as IMO they wont be ready for it, and IMO weren't really ready for it this year, as for some it was more like a lead rein class without the lead rein - people still had to run alongside the pony to get it to go anywhere, and to me this is not a first ridden class, but i'm all up for children having a go, it's just a shame that in your eyes they will not be able to do this next year, as 12 months will have passed, just like the fact that my daughter would have found it difficult to cope in the fr m&m class competing against much older children who know the game, we have only played at the first ridden and small breeds at shows with very few entries where she hasn't had to worry about getting too close/finding spaces etc.
I do actually agree with you about the interpretation of FYFR, and like i said in my previous post, we were playing by the rules of the show, if i had put her in the correct first ridden she would have had to do the equitation for the children 8-11, which compared to them she was no way up to the same standard ability wise, next time we will just not bother with these 'fun' shows as its more hastle than it's worth - play by the rules you get slated, don't play by the rules you still get slated, lose, lose situation for us, wish i hadn't bothered letting her have her fun with a few friends!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by ponymum on Feb 26, 2009 0:12:10 GMT
I cant comment on the day as I wasnt present, BUT the judge should have looked at the class and the children competing and judged accordingly.. At Northwest champs, my daughter won the fr sp class, we were shocked as there was a grey pony that went really well.However the jockey was about 12...Now the rules of the show allowed that age group and my daughter didnt do any thing wrong, but I think the judge took it upon herself to award accordinglyto usual fr ages. So maybe you should all be looking at the way the judge placed the children instead of sparring with each other?? The transition from LR to FR is the hardest thing to do, so dont push your kids, but encourage them, this is what I understood Warren farm show to be, although there were other children competing who have quite illustrious cvs in the ridden job!!!xx |
|
|
|
Post by fayeandash on Feb 26, 2009 0:36:22 GMT
"have fun with friends" is exactly what my daughter does at the shows, she isn't one of the children who is told off by me for speaking to others in the line up, very often we end up playing eye spy or other games, the day it becomes anything but fun for her is the day we give up, we are on a yard of adults so the shows are her way to socialise with friends who share the same interests, maybe the shows were a little more serious for you, but for us it's about having fun with friends!
|
|
|
|
Post by starrider on Feb 26, 2009 9:26:21 GMT
I was present at the show as a spectator and I think the show reached the objectives it set out to do - most of the children and adults looked like they were thoroughly enjoying themselves, albeit mums being rather nervous ;D - this was supposed to be a fun show - it seems to me it is the adults that are draining the fun out of it. |
|
|
|
Post by perfect on Feb 26, 2009 9:33:55 GMT
Hi overbent we do do pony club and really enjoy it, from riding in a group, to playing gymkanas, to unmounted rallies, and our pc is very friendly, as a child we coulnt afford for me to go to PC but all my grandchildren are now members and will be going to camp later in the year, and as ive said above, these little ones are precious, and its no good getting wound up about who did what and where and how. these children hopefully will get to know each other and remain friends for a long time, so [please no more getting at each other, it dosent teach the kids the right way.. I got to know the lady whose daughter rode my pony in the fr at the show last year , and have made friends with her, although i dont see her i do speak on here to her now and again, and its so nice that she trusted me to let her child ride a new pony that shed never sat on before. (Dawn)
|
|
|
|
Post by nikki on Feb 26, 2009 13:02:40 GMT
What I don't understand about this thread is that it is called 'first year first ridden' and yet people are still complaining about fellow competitors. This class is supposed to be about helping children ride on their own without losing their confidence and having some fun at the same time at shows that are not qualifiers. So does it matter where the children were placed, that some children were more capable than others or that the judge chose to select the children with more ability at this stage in their riding career? It is not as if it was a HOYS qualifier. I think the adults get more worked up about this sort of thing than the children but, it is a shame, because ultimately the attidude of the adults will pass on to the children when they are older.
|
|
|
|
Post by trader on Feb 26, 2009 14:28:57 GMT
I think most shows have an age limit n it, my daughter is only just 7, but has been doing the normal first ridden classes as not many shows run the FYFR classes, so when there is a FYFR class she goes in that and competes against children her own age, other wise she is competeing against children up to 13 years old (depending when their birthday is) and most schedules state that if the child is doing the FYFR then they can't enter other classes off the lead, as far as i'm aware this is the only rule, but i agree its confusing, and if the rule was that you couldn't go back once doing it for a year it would put children off giving it a try. You do state that your child normally does the FR classes but whenever there is a FYFR class she will go into that one, surely that cant happen. I agree that these classes are a minefield and those poor kids that have been brave enough to venture up to FR at a young age are then penalised as they are overwelmed by older, bigger riders in the same class. Perhaps an answer would be to split the age groups rather than the abilities or as well as abilities |
|
mizzy
Full Member
Posts: 336
|
Post by mizzy on Feb 26, 2009 16:46:23 GMT
I can't remember if any of you joined the FYFR - The Trials and Tribulations thread that we had running over Christmas/New Year but it dealt with quite alot of what is being discussed on here.
I have a 9 year old jockey who has over the last year been coming off the lead. She isn't a hugely confident/brave rider but loves it and has made great progress.
Our pony has been away learning some manners and how to turn from a LR pony into a FR and on our first outing this year, they won a FR unaff class. Hurrah!!!
Her big breakthrough was when they both confidently cantered a lap of the school on both reins! She is now happy to include cantering in her show. In my opinion, this means she is capable of FR and, eventhough she is eligible to do FYFR, unless we have a confidence problem at sometime this year, she will continue to do FR.
She is older than lots of children mentioned but her ability is only now matching her age - surely that's why the children can stay in LR until they are 9 (affiliated). She wasn't born in the saddle but is an active member of the PC and attends rallies, camp etc.
Surely FYFR is like Reception at school - the expectations are different from "big" school and there are lots of adults around just in case things go wrong!
Do we know what the judges are looking for? Suitability of pony for job ie manners, steadiness etc, or confirmation, or both?
Anyway........... what a lot of waffle, better stop now!!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
|
|
I thought the clue was in the name
