Nervous LR Pony - persevere or give up?

[WKponies]

I'm looking for some advice with regards to my lead rein pony. I have had him for coming up for a year now when he came to me in a poor little state and had been turned away for well over 12 months with larger horses. He had previously known his job (I am led to believe) but since coming to me has been very inconsistent and has had a few instances where he's spooked, something has always triggered the spook but nothing major where I would expect him to lose it.

I genuinely believe he is scared/nervous, although I've never given him reason to be, as when I handle him from the ground and something catches his eye he'll spook or give me the white of his eye. I don't want to give up on him and I can't imagine he'll end up in a better home than he's got now but for lead rein with my daughter I need to get him more settled as she's still learning herself and isn't the most balanced.

He's in a good routine at home, turned out with our FR pony. Fed on Lami Light Balancer, NAF Magic Calmer and Happy Hoof. In good condition on good grazing and daily turnout. Exercised gently 4 days a week.

My question is what would you recommend I do? How I see it is I have a few options, each with their own drawbacks and concerns:

• I turn him away and hope he settles down - although after 12 months surely he should have settled by now and then I'll be left with a little girl that desperately wants to show this season but can't.
• I send him away for schooling/bringing on - although I would be concerned about training methods i.e. I don't want him riding into the ground by an oversized rider or have hard training methods used on him as I don't think this will help his nerves
• I persevere with what I'm doing and hope eventually he settles - with the drawback that the kids might go through the odd ditching 

Any help, insights or opinions (constructive) would be greatly appreciated.

[gillwales]

Sorry but for me children's safety comes first, it is very easy to put a child off of riding. There are lots of ponies availible and you may well be able to loan one, if he has not settled yet he is unlikely to do so, how he is is how he is. If I was judging this type of pony would be at the bottom of the line regardless of his conformation because a l/r must carry a little one safely and install confidence in them. Good l/r ponies are bred not made, I have breed some and they have been wonderful with their little people from day 1.

[WKponies]

The thing is he's always been top of the line up and he's done some lovely little dressage tests with my oldest, 9 times out of 10 he's great and he's better on the lead than off. I just wish I could find a way where he has the confidence to deal with these little blips. We've only had a couple of falls in the last 12 months and I know no pony is perfect. He has good breeding too on paper. It's just so frustrating that he has these moments of fear and that I can't get him through them.

And then finally if I do just give up and turn him away, is it fair to him that he'll just become a field ornament for the rest of his life when he's only 10.

[maddiesmum]

I know how you feel, have had a similar dilemma, but life is to short & children too precious.....
I also agree look at ponies with breeding that is proven again & again as a LR/FR. Our section A was a darling as a 4yr old last season with my 4 yr old daughter, and I had specifically looked for lines that I admired.
You do sound like you want to keep trying so how about a small capable adult coming to you to school a few times, that way you can supervise unlike sending away.
Good luck!

[honeypot]

We has a Welsh A that we bought as it was the only thing we could afford at the time. My daughter was quite a capable jockey but he had a but in him, he would spook and run and she had some nasty falls on him, fortunately for him he did not buck or rear or he would have been in a tin can. For two years we persevered with him, schooled for jumping with Julie Barton, my daughter improved and by the time she grew out of him she could really get him to go well, but his basic temperament was still the same and the only thing that had really changed was her.
I sold him to a friend with a list of dos and don'ts for what I paid for him, her daughter rode well but without a knowing eye on them he soon got nappy and the next I heard she had swopped him through a dealer.
I have another Welsh A that we had from three and he hunted and could be taken anywhere at four, at twenty one he is still the same pony but a bit cleverer than most children. So I think if you want to keep him get another one whilst your child gets more skill, you are very lucky if you get smart looking and safe in one package and that why they are so expensive.

[WKponies]

Hi Honeypot, thanks for your reply. I am fortunate to have a bomb proof Sec B that she has started to learn to go off the lead on. In all honesty our Sec B has set the bar high me because he's such an angel, and now this pony is really coming up short in my expectations.

I have to say he has never napped, bucked or reared he just spooks and surges forward. On the lunge he's a total plod but I always have that slight caution in my mind with him now.

I've been thinking about it tonight a lot and think I'm going to give him a couple of months of hard work and see how he comes, if no improvement then I may have to reassess the situation and look to get her another pony and turn this one away as a field ornament.

[ilovenatives]

Have you had everything checked saddle /back/teeth ? To make sure there is no pain issues .
What's he like with no hard feed ? I would change the happyhoof for hifi Molasses free and leave out the balancer as well . Just give some chaff and your calmer , nothing else .
As to whether you should carry on with him and letting your children ride him only you can make that decision . Good luck

[WKponies]

Saddle, back and teeth all checked - regularly. He came to me with a bad back, after someone too big had been riding him for months in a poorly fitting saddle. So he had the first 3 months off with me and the back lady every couple of weeks till he was right.

I might try and cut out the feed and see how he goes, I thought the calmer was working last season as the last show we took him too he was a saint but he still has these occassional scared moments where he takes flight.

Tonight I've been practicing lead rein ground work with him tonight (no jockey) and he goes like a saint and he's great on the lunge with my daughter too - if only I could get him like that all the time :-(

[Philippa]

I've got 2 LR ponies, both top class both been to HOYS. One is a saint at home off the lead for Maisie to ride, however she is quite buzzy at shows when I was told she needed no work prior to going in the ring.

So, I'll get to the point, I've just done 2 clinics with a pro on consecutive weeks with one of the ponies and I'll tell you, the work that needs to be put in is phenomenal. I've shown all my life but LR is a new ball game. I seriously need to up my anti and work these ponies. Not hard but consistent. It is like training a dog, hard work, perseverance and lots of praise.

Oh and I was also told if you have to grab your jockey your pony is not suitable.

I'm going to be seriously fit by May with the pavement pounding I'm going to be doing with 2 ponies (and mine both know their job they just need reminding!!) that is when my back improves and I can actually walk properly again!!

[Philippa]

Forgot to say that the groundwork needs doing without jockey on top.

[emilyequi]

If he can take a small adult I would suggest maybe having a small adult/teen to come and school him? Under your supervision so you can ensure you're happy with it.
You're doing well to stick with him

[WKponies]

Thanks Phillipa that's the answer I wanted to hear. I hope it's me that needs to up my anti as opposed to this pony being a dead loss. I am told he when he was younger he was placed highly in RIHS and HOYS qualifiers so I would hope he does know his job.

I had thought about taking him out on the road, without a jockey and take him for lots of work, get him to see the world a bit. Anythings got to be worth a try right?

[Philippa]

I'll pm you x

[sarahp]

If you were to turn him away at 10 he won't mind a bit, don't worry about it "not being fair" to him. He won't know any different, just revel in his natural pony life.

[gillwales]

if he does a good dressage test with an independant jockey then you have found a job for him to do

[norwalk]

Reading through the previous replies I was thinking of things you've already addressed (physical pain-wise...).
I would persevere (if you have the space and the time).
Also, try "hazard training". One of our lead rein ponies came with a reputation of being sharp & spooky - especially around umbrellas and ring ropes...
We turned her out with different things in her paddock - like flags, tarpaulins, etc... Spent ages walking across with an umbrella up until we could eventually get her to touch it with her nose to get a treat. Basically, just doing desensitisation work so she knew the world wasn't that scary!
It took ages to get her to be a FR pony rather than LR, by which time my daughter was out of the class (!), but she did a bit of everything in her, even workers. 11 years later she's still here and taking my friends little girls into the ring to get them started. (But still has a spark in her, and will still give things "a look" if the mood takes her - mainly done, I think, for dramatic effect!!!)
The bolting is worrying. Perhaps going back to basic principles, concentrate (as Phillipa and ilovenatives say) on working from the ground without jockey. I used to work my lead reins for 15-30 mins per day just to really cement that communication between you... Whatever you decide, I hope it works out well x

[bubbles1822]

I think getting him to see the work would be good, hacking out without a jockey, tying things up in his stable so they dangle and knock into him... Like beach balls etc not that would hurt or get caught! Working him with things around the sand paddock.. Balls, cones, signs, poles etc... And if he has bolted and you can pin point what it was then you could also work with whatever it was...
As with the children you know them and how they feel/you feel about the situation.

Good luck

[WKponies]

Thanks everyone for your comments, it has given me some food for thought and I'm feeling much more positive that with more work put in on my behalf we can make him a lot more settled in the work. The desensitizing suggestions were really helpful, I'm going up to the yard tonight after work to get started. I've just ordered a variety of cones, raised pole cups and flags (good old EBay) to do some groundwork with him.

Fingers crossed I'll be able to report back positive progress and if not my other pony, my son's super pony in my profile pic :-) , will have lots of new fun gymkhana things to play with.

[sarahp]

Don't forget feed bags and dustbin bags. I dump the former (empty) into the paddock and later box with them to get used to. Some shows I've been to used to put dustbin bags on the stakes round the ring. Mind you, I had one big D who was frightened of cows - first time he met any was when escorting a baby on a hack - baby was fine, he was terrified. He subsequently went on loan to a dairy farm but never lost his fear of cows - they don't always get over anything. I did know though he'd just stand and roll his eyes and snort and maybe jiggle on the spot a bit, nothing worse.

I always think if possible it's easier for them to get used to things in their own time when loose if possible rather than being led and maybe held nearer something scarey than they feel comfortable.

[catkin]

I have only ever 'given up' on one LR pony. Partly because our jockey at the time was tiny. He has lived with a friend since then as a much handled companion and still, to this day, occasionally does silly things when led. Lots of good advice above, but a few points from me.
Some ponies simply cannot do both LR and off the rein. They all should and most will (and benefit from it) but do not rely on the fact that because the pony is good off the lead it will be OK on it. I would not turn the pony away, but keep quietly, firmly and kindly persisting in general handling and LR training. I would put the groundwork in without a child on and then put a larger child on to begin with. If nothing else, their improved balance will be more reassuring to the pony. Whenever you ride your other ponies, take this one with you, even just in a head collar to stand and watch.
Having said all this, I am, tomorrow, back in the ring with a LR after years and years of not doing it and (to be honest) not being very fond of the job. Boring for kids, boring for ponies and boring for leaders. My advice above, may be laughable when I get it wrong! But the pony in question is also a young FR and I think the mileage will do her good. Plus I have a verry little niece who is very keen to get into the ring. So, wish me luck!

[sarahp]

I'm most interested in your verdict of LR show classes as boring for children, ponies and leaders! I haven't really done enough of the latter to know, but looking at the huge LR classes of today I've always wondered about the other two, and learning of a LR pony as an entity in its own right seems odd to me. Mind you we did have one, retired from showing, fine on lead but lethal off it, child on floor in seconds. She was used more like a mobile pram, and as soon as daughter started to actually ride and compete we had to get another pony. I suppose I hail from an earlier age when children were only on the LR at all as a necessary tool on the way to learning to ride properly and they all wanted to get off it and ride independently as soon as possible.

[catkin]

My statement about boring is mainly around the waiting around. Can be hours especially in M&M classes. As for the LR training, its mainly to do with the dependence of the pony on the leader rather than the child. They need to be very sharp off the mark and highly obedient - a bit like a circus pony really! Its a real art form.

[barbiegirl]

Have you had his eyes checked? I had a pony who came with a history of bolting for no apparent reason. He did it at my yard several times, so I had vet check him over and it turned out that he had a problem with his sight. His condition rapidly deteriorated to the point where his quality of life was becoming compromised so I did the right thing for him. He was only 10 years old.

[WKponies]

Hi Barbiegirl, thanks for your post. I am pretty confident his sight is OK as he has recently had an corneal ulcer, which is all healed now, and I would expect that as part of his treatment his sight would have been very closely checked. Perhaps I'm wrong to assume this and will check it out with the vets as he is due for his annual vaccs soon.

[sarahp]

With my grumpy old woman tin hat on here - if it's boring for the children and you end up with a pony that can't be ridden by the child but only obeys a leader rather than a rider, what's the point of LR showing? Obviously only for the benefit of the adult who wants to show something regardless!

[Philippa]

Feb 25, 2015 7:04:15 GMT sarahp said:

With my grumpy old woman tin hat on here - if it's boring for the children and you end up with a pony that can't be ridden by the child but only obeys a leader rather than a rider, what's the point of LR showing? Obviously only for the benefit of the human who wants to show something regardless!

Lol, ooh did your bed kick you out the wrong side this morning?!?!? Lol

[sarahp]

No, I just hail from a different era with different priorities and some of the current ones don't sit well with me. At the age these show LR jockeys are sitting for hours on a pony they can't ride my daughter was learning by having fun with her friends and their ponies. Of course she was led by me to start with, on foot or from another pony, but we did hacking, PC rallies and handy pony, fancy dress and gymkhana classes, all good for developing balance and an independent seat, as well as having lessons. It also REALLY saddens me to read of the young who when they get pregnant, want it to be a girl to be a LR jockey. First, surely the actual child should be the priority, not its future use for showing, and second why shouldn't boys ride?

[maddiesmum]

I must confess I did hope that Maddie would like ponies (lucky for me, she is obsessed! Lol) but I am with you SarahP on the lack of all round riding lots of small jockeys seem to do these days.
We love our LR showing, Maddie was only bored once (at the New Forest Show, 30+ entries) so we played eye spy. But unfortunately I have seen a lot of bored & even bribed to ride kids, which if I had to do that, I definitely wouldn't bother! If it's the adult that wants to show, they could just do in hand.
As well as showing though we are active pony club members, hack out, do mini LR jumping, gymkhanas etc I think maybe the variety is why it is so fun for all of 3 of us, Maddie, Powder puff & Me!

[catkin]

SarahP - no tin hat required! I am grumpy too hence my boredom, but lots of kids love LR so that's as good a reason as any. It does teach them ringcraft and hopefully some ponies then do other jobs. My brothers and son actually didn't like LR at all and went solo v early, probably too early in sometimes! Each to their own I say, and I am fully of admiration for anyone that can truly train a LR pony, its a worthy job in itself.

[sarahp]

I hope you realise you're excepted from any implied criticism catkin, I know what you and your family do.

While I'm on a roll, what about children too busy to actually ride outside of competing but have grooms/trainers etc and just hop on for competitions? I know of one family who live in London and have a w/e house where ponies live with groom who does it all and exercises in the week, trainer comes and schools ponies, if competing at the w/e groom baths, cleans tack, loads lorry and all the owners do is get in and go the next day. And no, don't mention school holidays, too busy going abroad, on courses etc. I do of course appreciate children go to school but I wonder what they're actually learning about riding and horse management on this regime? Back in time to my father-in-law's day when the big houses had grooms to do it all and again, all they had to do was get on, ride, and hand it back to the groom afterwards - but it was the grooms who had the knowledge and expertise. Partly also to do with the part of the country in which I live and the availability of sufficient money, but also with working mothers. When I was a PC mother the mothers took the children, now I gather it's usually an employee of some sort.